52 Ancestors Week #29 – Update of “The Insane”

No Story Too Small has issued a New Year’s Challenge: “Have one blog post each week devoted to a specific ancestor. It could be a story, a biography, a photograph, an outline of a research problem — anything that focuses on one ancestor.”


In week # 24, I wrote of Jane Catherine (Roberts) Lansil, my g-g-grandmother of born in Lanfairfechan, Wales: http://passagetothepast.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/52-ancestors-week-24-jane-catherine-roberts-of-llanfairfechan/


The previous week #23, I had written of her husband, my g-g-grandfather Edwin Lansil: http://passagetothepast.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/52-ancestors-week-23-edwin-lansil-the-not-so-famous-brother/

b78d6966-0ac5-4c1b-b14a-fe25bce6d589 (1)

Both spent time and died in the Boston Insane Hospital. I was interested to know more. Asylum records are closed in Massachusetts forever. Yes, forever!  The state will release medical records if you (essentially) sue them or if you are named as the deceased’s estate administrator in probate court (assuming the deceased did not already have an estate that was settled through probate, which they did not).


The lawyer with whom I consulted, quoted a cost of $1,500 ($400 of which is the fee to file in probate court). Unless I go through the costly process to be named the estate administrator, it is illegal for the hospital who holds the records to look in their file cabinet (or boxes in the basement) to tell me if records exist!  Thus, a large expense that may reveal nothing.

I am hoping to gain further information through the Freedom of Information Act and have written several (to date, unanswered) letters to my State Representative, Dan Ryan. Fingers crossed.

I did find the Hospital’s asylum intake records on microfilm at the Family History Library (for $7.50, I ordered the films and had them delivered to NEHGS in Boston for viewing).

FHL insane

intake records

Edwin was admitted 20 Nov 1903 and remained there until his death 11 July 1904 of “Exhaustion of Senile Insanity”.

Jane Catherine was admitted 23 March 1907, no death is noted, as the record book only dates to 1907; her death certificate indicates that she died there, 25 years later on 30 May 1932.

Both were admitted through “Prob” (probate).

This confused me.  I had previously searched through the Suffolk County probate indexes and found nothing. I consulted with Rhonda McClure, at NEHGS, who suggested that they may be recorded in a different probate book vs. those referenced in the probate court indices and suggested I contact Elizabeth Bouvier, Head of Archives, MA Supreme Judicial Court, elizabeth.bouvier@sjc.state.ma.us.

Elizabeth’s initial response (within an hour of my inquiry), 3 July 2014 : “There are Suffolk County Probate Commitment records ; however, the index to the records was not located  as of 1986 when the records were moved from the Court to an offsite storage center.  The records are organized by case number and year. It may be awhile before you hear back from my office as to whether we can locate any records for your relatives”.

Two weeks later, 17 July 2014, Elizabeth emailed again: “For copies of the two records send $5.00 cash or check (payable: Commonwealth of MA) and a SASEnvelope sufficient to hold ten pieces of paper To: ARCHIVES, 3 Pemberton Sq., 16th Fl.  Boston, MA 02108-1701″

On Friday, 25 July 2014, the documents arrived! Shout out to Elizabeth and her team!  They are amazing!  This is the third time in the past several years that I asked for assistance and the third time that I have gotten almost instantaneous results!

Application for the Commitment for the Insane:
20 November 1903

White male, age 65, born Bangor, ME, occupation: surveyor, married.

He had no previous attacks; the present attack started one year ago, the attack was gradual and he has not previously been in an asylum.  His bodily condition is poor, likely due to an injury related to a fall in 1901.  The patient is “cleanly in dress and personal habits”.  

He is demented, restless, incoherent and destructive.  He had an insane father [wow! so Asa Paine Lansil was also insane at some point!].  His liquor, tobacco and opium habits are “good”.

Nearest relative: Wife, Jane C., 101 Maxwell St., Dorchester

Medical Certificate of Insanity: 
20 November 1903

He said: I [unable to read] as got into. He talked very incoherently.

he said

The patient: Ate flour with a knife – kept walking about handling things. He was not properly dressed.

 His appearance and manner was: demented, incoherent, destructive.

Other facts: He has been failing mentally for some time. He is very restless, confused and at times violent and destructive [did he hurt his wife and/or children?].

Jane Catherine
Application for the Commitment for the Insane:
23 March 1907

White female, age 44, born Wales, occupation: housework

She had one previous attack, the present attack began 2 weeks ago.

She was at the Boston Ins. Hospital July 26, 1897 [does not specify if this is an admittance or discharge date].

The present attack was gradual; her bodily condition is fair. It is unknown if she has had previous physical injuries. The patient is “cleanly in dress and personal habits”.  She is depressed, deluded, possibly suicidal. There is no prior known family history of insanity.  Her liquor, tobacco and opium habits are “good”.

Nearest relative: Daughter, Mrs. Edward J. Thompson, Hiawatha Road, Mattapan

Medical Certificate of Insanity: 
23 March 1907
The patient said: “I feel alright. I feel as well as I ever did. I thought people had been stealing from me. To-day is Wednesday.  I don’t play cards – no need of it. I don’t want you to feel my pulse! I ____ there is no need of ____” [couldn't read a few words].

The patient: Sat in chair; resisted being examined, hesitated in answering questions, and some questions would not answer at all. 

Her appearance and manner was: dull and confused. Untidy in appearance. Appears just as she did when insane before. 

Other facts: She was insane and a patient at Boston Insane Hospital in 1897. Since last August she has imagined people stealing from her. She was depressed and irritable. Has become worse the past few days. Is dull, confused, talks out of the window to people on the street. Sings at times and expresses various incoherent delusions. Obstinate and hard to manage.

So sad for their children.  Fanny was ten and Edith (my g-grandmother) only nine, the first time their mother entered the asylum in 1897.

Their father’s only sister was deceased and they resided with his three bachelor brothers – Walter, Wilbur and Asa B.  Two of whom were traveling artists and another who was an alcoholic.  Jane’s sisters were in Wales and Chicago. Jane’s mother was in Wales and Edwin’s mother deceased.

Florence May Bragg (b. 1868), their cousin who was taken in by the Lansil bachelor’s when their sister Francis Ellen “Fanny” (1841-1886) and her husband Carleton Sylvanus Bragg (1838-1880) died, likely helped raise Fanny and Edith.


Jane Catherine lost two children, 9 month old Florence Paine in 1891 and Edwin Roberts at just 9 days old in 1894. Did it cause her depression/insanity?  Jane and Edwin’s youngest daughter Doris was born in 1899, two years after Jane’s was initially declared insane. Edwin died in 1903 when she was just four; Doris then lost her mother to insanity at age eight and was raised by her twenty year old sister Fanny.

Photocopies of the documents:

2014-07-28 15.13.40 2014-07-28 15.14.10 2014-07-28 15.14.26 2014-07-28 15.14.34 2014-07-28 15.14.45 2014-07-28 15.14.52 2014-07-28 15.15.12 2014-07-28 15.15.25 2014-07-28 15.15.38 2014-07-28 15.15.45 2014-07-28 15.15.55 2014-07-28 15.16.01

52 Ancestors Week #28 – Using Consanguinity to Prove Parentage in the Roy Family

No Story Too Small has issued a New Year’s Challenge: “Have one blog post each week devoted to a specific ancestor. It could be a story, a biography, a photograph, an outline of a research problem — anything that focuses on one ancestor.”

If you are a Roy/Roi/King cousin or other researcher, I would very much appreciate corrections and/or additions and would love family photos and stories.  This post covers only the children and grandchildren of Joseph Roy/Roi (King), but I am attempting to capture descendants through present day in my offline genealogy program. 

Special THANK YOU to Stephen White, Genealogist at Moncton University’s Centre d’Études Acadiennes for his work on piecing together so many Acadian families (http://www.umoncton.ca/umcm-ceaac/node/55); and Lucie LeBlanc Consentino who’s website and Facebook page has taught me so much of everything Acadian, she has also given permission to use some of her cemetery photos (http://www.acadian-home.org/) and last but not least the folks who instructed the French/French-Canadian week long course at Salt Lake Institute of Genealogy (SLIG), 2011 (I attended to learn “how-to” research my husband’s French Canadians, without realizing I was 25% Acadian myself!, as my mother, (50% Acadian & 50% Lithuanian) was not raised by her biological parents.


In the beginning, I was a typical “newbie”….I took anything written on the internet as “fact” and copied “ancestors” in unsourced trees by the hundreds. My goal was to simply collect names back to Adam and Eve. Well, maybe not back that far, but you get my point.  I am slowly reviewing those additions to correct any errors and perhaps learn more of the lives and the times of these ancestors.

Today’s project:  To document the wives/children and grandchildren of my 3rd great grandfather Joseph Roy/Roi (King) and determine if François Roy/Roi (King) and Vénérande Savoie are his parents.




Let’s Start with the Marriages

My 3rd g-grandparents were Joseph Roy/Roi (King) and (Judith) Angélique Beliveau who were married on 13 November 1855 in Scoudouc, Westmorland, New Brunswick, Canada. The marriage record reads:

Scoudouc, Westmoreland N.B., St Jacques- le 13 Novembre 1855, après la publication ordinince des bans de mariage entre Joseph Roy veuf majeure de défunt Léger de Bouctouche d’una part, et Angelique Beliveau fille mineure de Amand Beliveau et de Natalie Bourgeois de la missons de Squédouc, d’autre part ne s’étant découvert aucun empêchement et __ le consentement des parents nous prêtre soussigné avons  reçu leur mutual consentement de mariage et leur avons donne la benediction nuptiale en presence de Joseph Maillet et de Euphamie Beliveau qui ainsi que les époux niut su signer.

Which translates to something like:

Scoudouc, Westmoreland N.B., St Jacques- the 13 November 1855, after the publication of banns of marriage ordinance­­ between Joseph Roy, of legal age, widower of deceased Léger of Bouctouche on the one part and Angelique Beliveau minor daughter of Amand Beliveau and Natalie Bourgeois of the mission of Scoudouc on the other part, having received no impediment and having ___ consent from the parents we priest undersigned have received their mutual consent of marriage and have given them the nuptial blessing in the presence of Joseph Maillet and of Euphamie Beliveau which together with the spouses sign this night.

joseph marriage 2

If Joseph was the “widower of deceased Léger of Bouctouche”, then their marriage and her death occurred prior to November 1855, likely in Bouctouche.

In the parish of St-Jean-Baptiste in Bouctouche, a Henriette Legere, 31 years old, spouse of Joseph Roi, died the “day before yesterday and was buried in the cemetery of this parish” on 23 April 1853.

This seems to be a good possibility for Joseph’s first wife.  A potential relative, Francois Roi, was present as mentioned in the entry.

Herietta death

Also in the parish of St-Jean-Baptiste, Bouctouche a marriage is recorded between Joseph Roi and Henriette Legere in 1847:

Le 2 fevrier 1847 apres après la publication ordinince des bans de mariage faite a nos  messes paroissiales entre Joseph Roi et Henriette Legere apres avoir accorde dispense du 3 au 3 et du 4 au 4me degre de consanguinite en vertue des facultes accordees a monseigneur William Dallard par un indulte du sd Octobre 1842 par le St. Siege Ad decennium ces dites facultes nous ayant ete accordies nous avons reçu leur  consentement mutual de mariage et leur avons donne la benediction nuptiale en presence de Francois Roi, Isaac LeBlanc

Which translates to something like:

On February 2, 1847 after after the publication of banns ordinance made ​​to our parish masses between Joseph Roi and Henrietta Legere after having granted dispensation from 3 to 3 and 4 to the 4th degree of consanguinity in virtue of the powers granted by a Monseigneur William Dallard indulte of October 1842 by the St. Siege Ad Decennium these faculties having been said we accordingly received consent mutual of their marriage and have given the nuptial benediction in the presence of  Francois Roi, Isaac LeBlanc

A Francois Roi, was again present.

Marriage1 joseph

Huh? “after having granted dispensation from 3 to 3 and 4 to the 4th degree of consanguinity”

So what is consanguinity?  Wikipedia defines it as ” the quality of being descended from the same ancestor as another person”.

The Catholic Church required couples to gain permission prior to marrying a relative, as the offspring of consanguineous relationships are at greater risk of certain genetic disorders and they considered marrying a close relative immoral.  The dispensation was granted for the degree of consanguinity without distinguishing between half and full siblings or “spiritual” relatives (i.e. if your father married a second wife who had her own offspring, then you were technically related to the second wife’s children from her first marriage and would require dispensation for the degree of affinity).

So it appears that Joseph Roy was related to his first wife in two ways:

  • 3 to 3 (third degree): i.e. second cousins, sharing great grandparents
  • 4 to 4 (fourth degree): i.e.  third cousins, sharing great, great grandparents

Noted Acadian researcher/genealogist Stephen A. White published La généalogie des trente-sept familles hôtesses des « Retrouvailles 94 » which can be found HERE.

He notes in the Leger genealogy:

JEAN LÉGER (à Joseph à Jacques à Jacques à Jacques), m (1) GENEVIÈVE CORMIER, their 9th child was:

Henriette, n Memramcook 25 fév 1821; m Bouctouche 2 fév 1847 Joseph ROY (François & Vénérande Savoie); d Bouctouche 21 avril 1853.

Using these two sets of “parents”, I identified at least one case of consanguinity:

The chart below (created using genealogical data from Stephen A. White’s La généalogie des trente-sept familles) shows the third degree of consanguinity (a common g-grandfather, Pierre-Jacques Leger).  Joseph’s maternal grandmother Marie Jumelle Leger and Henriette Legere’s paternal grandfather, Joseph Legere are half-siblings, both the child of Pierre Jacques Leger – Joseph by his wife Agathe Breau and Marie by his wife Marie Madeleine Haché.

Relationship_ Henriette Legere to Joseph Roy Roi
Joseph’s parents, François Roy/Roi (King) son of François Roy & Marie Leger and Vénérande Savoie daughter of Jean Savoie and Marie Allain were married in Richibucto in 1820 having been granted dispensation from [?] degree of consanguinity (unable to read the degree).
Roy Savoie marriage
On 24 May 1858, Joseph’s mother, Vénérande, age 59, was buried in Bouctouche.
sav death
On 27 April 1875, Joseph’s father Francois, age 78, was buried in Bouctouche.
frank death

Baptisms of known children

Joseph had twelve known children.  For ease, I numbered each child from 1-12 and included “their number” in any further discussion of their lives, with the exception of Libie (Lébée/Lybie ?) b. 1851 for whom no further information was located.  Although it should be noted, that Libie/Lébée/Lybie’s godparents were François Roy and Vénérande Savoie, strengthening the argument that there was a relationship with ‘her father Joseph, likely her grandparents.

The online Bouctouche parish registers are handwritten copies of the original; the photos included here are of the copies from the Drouin Collection available on Ancestry.com.  Father Alban Thibodeau who created the index of the Bouctouche records, found the original registers and there were errors in the transcription (I am hoping to obtain copies). This branch of Roy’s were baptized, married and buried in Bouctouche parish until the arrival of Ste-Marie’s (Mont-Carmel’s) first resident pastor in 1870.

(1) Cyrille –  Joseph’s son from his first marriage to Legere, baptized  20 November 184, St-Jean Parish  in Bouctouche.  Godparents were Jean Legere and Agnes Roi.

birth Cyrille

(2) Pierre – Joseph’s son from his first marriage to Legere, baptized 30 November 1849, in St-Jean Parish in Bouctouche. Godparents were Pierre Hebert and Marie Roi.

birth Pierre

(3) Libie (Lébée/Lybie?)- Joseph’s daughter from his first marriage to Legere, baptized 28 Dec 1851, in St-Jean Parish in Bouctouche; godparents were François Roy and Vénérande Savoie (Joseph’s parents!)  It is possible that she died young, was adopted and/or the name “Libie” is a transcription error, as it is not a “typical” name of the place/time.

Libie birth

(4) Hippolite –  Joseph’s son from his first marriage to Legere, baptized 9 Feb 1853, in St-Jean Parish in Bouctouche; godparents were Louis Legere and Olive LeBlanc.  He was not living with the Roy family in any census year and was adopted by Eustache Poirier.

hippo birth

(5) Dosithee – Joseph’s son from his second marriage to Belliveau, baptized 30 July 1857, St-Jean Parish in Bouctouche. Godparents were Pacifique Belliveau and Agnes Roy.

Doscite birth

(6) Sifroi (Sigefroi/Sigefroy/Sigefroie)- Joseph’s son from his second marriage to Belliveau, baptized 12 November 1858, St-Jean Parish in Bouctouche. Godparent was Charles Maillet.

Sifroi birth

(7) Henriette – Joseph’s daughter from his second marriage to Belliveau, baptized 2 December 1860, St-Jean Parish in Bouctouche. Godparents were Jean C. Maillet and Marraine Henriette Bastarache.

henriette birth daughter

(8) Sylvain – Joseph’s son from his second marriage to Belliveau, baptized 12 December 1861, St-Jean Parish in Bouctouche. Godparents were Sylvain Maillet and Marraine Jeanette LeBlanc. Joseph’s middle name is given as Francois.

Sylvain birth

(9) Cécile – Joseph’s daughter from his second marriage to Belliveau, baptized 4 June 1866, St-Jean Parish in Bouctouche. Godparents were Cyrille Roy and Cecile Allain.

Cecile birth

(10) Vital – Joseph’s son from his second marriage to Belliveau, baptized 30 March 1868, St-Jean Parish in Bouctouche. Godparents were Edouard and Marraine Genevieve Belliveau.  Note that his mother is recorded as “Julie”, this was the only record in the parish that was likely the correct baptism for Vital, perhaps Julie is in error and it was meant to be Judith. His marriage record names Judith as his mother, and when he travels to the US in 1916 he gives a contact in Canada as a brother Sylvain.

Vital birth

(11) Olivier, Joseph’s son from his second marriage to Belliveau, baptized 5 June 1870, at Ste. Marie de Mont-Carmel. Godparents were _____ Maillet and _____ Richard.

Oliver bap

(12) Jude,  Joseph’s son from his second marriage to Belliveau, baptized 24 June 1873, at Ste. Marie de Mont-Carmel. Godparents were Dosite Roy and Domtilda Cormier.

Jude baptism

The Census Data

The census data may further strengthen the theory of Joseph’s parentage.  A man named Frank (Francois?), of the age to be Joseph’s father, happens to live very close (or perhaps on the same farm) in 1861. A woman named Agnes Roy who is listed as a daughter to Frank in 1861 appears to be residing with Joseph’s two sons Cyrille and Pierre from his first marriage in 1871 and also with Cyrille in 1881.  Agnes Roy was named as godmother to Joseph’s sons Cyrille and Dosithee.

Joseph (1829-1913) settled in Sainte-Marie-de-Kent (Sainte-Marie), a Canadian village in Kent County, New Brunswick. Today located in the parish of Saint Mary, which was established in 1867 from part of Wellington Parish; the same year Canada officially become a country. The village is located about 28 miles north of Moncton on North side of the Buctouche River, 1.4 miles North East of Upper Bouctouche. Its residents are largely Acadian, most of whom speak French in its local variant Chaic.

St. Mary’s (LeBlanc, Emery. La vie à Saint-Marie.  c1984):

in 1871 it had a population of 100:

in 1898 St. Mary’s was a farming and fishing community with 1 post office, 4 stores, 1 cheese factory, 1 church and a population of about 1,000: included the community of Mount Carmel:

in 1904 Mount Carmel was a farming settlement with 1 post office, 4 stores, 2 churches and a population of 250:

Map st Mary


1851/1861 Canadian Census

The 1851 Canadian census for Kent County did not survive. By 1861, Joseph and his family resided in what was then Wellington Parish; they were Roman Catholic. He was listed as Joseph “junior”. Was the title “junior” an enumerator error?  Perhaps he meant to communicate that Joseph was the son of Francois Roy/Roi who resided nearby.  Joseph’s middle name is likely Francois [as written on his son Sylvain's baptism record], so perhaps he was a “junior”. It seems that many of his descendants were given a birth name Joseph and then used their middle name in every day life (common among many French Canadians).

Joseph, junior, age 31, farmer [my 3rd g-grandfather]
Angélique, age 29, wife
(1) Ceril, age 14, son [likely Joseph's son Cyrille from his first marriage to Legere, baptized  20 November 1847]
(2) Peter, age 12, son [likely Joseph's son Pierre from his first marriage to Legere, baptized 30 November 1849]
(5) Docité, age 4, son [my 2nd g-grandfather - Dosithee, baptized 30 July 1857] 
(6) Cephor, age 3, son [likely Sifroi, baptized 12 November 1858]
(7) Onriette, age 1, daughter [likely Henriette,  baptized 2 December 1860]

Next door (or perhaps on the same farm) are Joseph’s likely paternal relatives:

Frank, junior, age 63, widower, farmer [likely Joseph's father and the Francois mentioned in other records]
- Olive. age 39, daughter [likely Joseph's sister]
Onyez [Agnes ?], age 37, daughter [likely Joseph's sister]
– Frank, senior, age 92, lodger [likely Joseph's paternal grandfather]

1861 census

1871 Canadian Census

By 1871 the family is enumerated in the newly formed parish of Sainte-Marie (with four additional children).  The two eldest children are no longer residing with Joseph, nor are any members of the King/Roy family who were found in an adjoining home in 1861:

Joseph, 42, cultivateur (farmer), can not read or write
Angelique, 40, can not read or write
(5) Docitée, 13  
(6) Sigefroi,12
(7) Henriette,10
(8) Sylvain, 9 [baptized 12 December 1861]
(9) Cécile, 5 [baptized 4 June 1866]
(10) Vitál, 8 [likely baptized March 1868]
(11) Olivier, 10 months [baptized 5 June 1870]

1871 Canadian Census

In 1871, a Cyrille and Pierre Roy of the right age to be Joseph’s sons from the 1861 census, are residing together in Saint Marie with Agnes Roy [of the correct age to be the daughter living with Frank Roy in 1861, and potential sister of Joseph].

(1) Cyrille [Ceril ?], age 23, son [likely Joseph's son from his first marriage to Henriette Legere]
Agnes [Onyez ?], age 47,  [likely Joseph's sister]
(2) Pierre [Peter ?], age 12, son [likely Joseph's son from his first marriage to Henriette Legere]

1871 census 2

(4) Hyppolyte/Hippolite, according to his marriage record, was adopted by Eustache Poirier after his mother’s death.  In 1871, he was enumerated in the parish of Dundas, Grande-Digue as Hippolite Poirier with his adoptive parents.  Grande-Digue is located on Shediac Bay, 2.4 miles North Northeast of Shediac Bridge, Dundas Parish, Kent County. In 1871 Grande-Digue had a population of 400: in 1898 Grande-Digue was a farming and fishing settlement with 1 post office, 2 stores, 1 hotel, 1 church and a population of 300 (http://archives.gnb.ca/Exhibits/Communities/Details.aspx?culture=en-CA&community=1539).

Hippolyte 1871

(3) Libie/Lébée/Lybie is not found in any census.

(**) A widowed Frances Roi, of the correct age to be Joseph’s father was found in Wellington residing with the family of Joseph & Mary Ferware (enumerated as Jerway in 1861 an two census pages away from the Roy’s in Wellington), perhaps Fougere?  It seems likely that this the correct entry, but can’t be sure.

1871 Joseph

1881 Canadian Census

In 1881 the family continues to reside in the parish of Sainte-Marie (with one additional child):

Joseph, 52, cultivateur (farmer)
Angelique, 51
(8) Silvin [Sylvain], 19
(7) Aurietta [Henriette], 20
(9) Cecille [Cécile], 15
(10) Vitál, 13
(11) Olivier, 11
(12) Jude, 7 [baptized 24 June 1873]

(5) Docitée, 23 was listed as a widower and enumerated separately [the day after the remainder of the family was recorded, see margin notes], he may have resided  in the same home or next door.

1881 census

(1) Cyrille, his wife Genevieve, six children and Aunt Agnes Roy live nearby in Sainte-Marie.

cyrille 1881

(2) Pierre, his wife Madeline, and four children live in Sainte-Marie, two families away from Cyrille.

pierre 1881

(6) Sigefroi, 21, is married and living nearby, in Sainte-Marie, with his wife (name unreadable, likely Judeste), 22 and daughter [E]ugenie, 1

1881 census

(4) Hyppolyte/Hippolite resides in Moncton with his wife Marie Rose and two children; he is a farmer.  They are residing next door or possibly in the same home as Hyppolyte’s adoptive parents.

1881 hyppolite

 1891 Canadian Census

In 1891 some of the family continues to reside in the parish of Sainte-Marie:

Joseph, 61, alt
Angelique, 60
(11) Olivier, 20
(12) Jude, 16

Next door [or possibly on the same farm] is their son (6) Sylvain, 29, his wife Marie and their 5 children.

census 1891

(1) Cyrille, his wife Genevieve, ten children and Aunt Agnes Roy live nearby in Sainte-Marie.

cyrille census


(2) Pierre, his wife Madeline and seven children  live nearby in Sainte-Marie.

Pierre 1891

(5) Docitée, his wife Victorie and their three children live nearby in Sainte-Marie.

dosc census 1891


(9) Cécile is next door (or perhaps on the same farm) as her brother Docitée with her husband Jean Collet/Collette and two children.

1891 collette

(7) Henrietta was in Wellington with her husband Domicien LeBlanc and three children.

Henrietta 1891

(6) Sigefroi was living with his wife Adele and five children in Grande-Digue, Dundas Parish.

sig 1901

(4) Hippolite and (10) Vitál were not definitively identified in the 1891 census.

1901 Canadian Census (this census includes birth day, month and year)

In 1901 some of the family continues to reside in the parish of Sainte-Marie:

Joseph, 71, cultivator
Angelique, 69
(12) Jude, 27

Next door [or possibly on the same farm] is the family of their son (11) Olivier, 30, his wife Celeste and their five children.

1901 Joseph

(1) Cyrille, his second wife Barbe and ten children live nearby in Sainte-Marie; two teenagers named Octavia & Henriette LeBlanc reside with him, he names them as daughters [perhaps step-daughters ?].

cyrille 1901

Also in  Sainte-Marie is their son (8) Sylvain, 29 and his wife Marie and nine children.

1901 sylvain

(5) Docitée (enumerated as Doss King), his wife Victorie and their three children have relocated to Lancaster, Saint John, New Brunswick.

1901 Doss

(6) Sigefroi was living with his wife Adele and five children in Grande-Digue, Dundas Parish.

cyrille 1901

(9) Cécile was residing with her husband Jean/John D. Collet/Collette in Sainte-Marie with six children.

1901 Collette

(10) Vitál was residing nearby in the Parish of Wellington, with wife Margerite and four children.

vital 1901

(2) Pierre, (4) Hippolite  and (7) Henrietta were not definitively identified in the 1901 census.

1911 Canadian Census

Angelique, noted as a farmer’s wife, died on 13 March 1907 at age 77, the cause was “decline”, she had been ill “all winter”. She is likely buried in St Mary’s.

angeliques death



In 1911 a widowed Joseph, continues to reside in the parish of Sainte-Marie his son Docitée’s family and his widowed son Jude:

(5) Docitée, 53, cultivateur (farmer)
Victorie, 46
Pius, 24 [my g-grandfather]
Laura, 19 [my g-grandmother]
Joseph, 83, retired
(12) Jude, 47

1911 census Joseph

(1) Cyrille was also enumerated in St Mary’s with his second wife and several children.

Cyrille 1911

(2) Pierre resided in Dundas with his wife Madeline and two children.

Pierre 1911

(6) Sigefroi resided in Dundas with his wife and several children.

sigfroid 1911r

(8) Sylvain was enumerated in Moncton under the surname King at 7 Harper’s with his wife Marie, four children and three young boarders all using the surname King (likely relatives). Interestingly, his wife is listed as head of household and he is enumerated as “husband”.  The only death certificate located for a Sylvain Roy of the right age, gives his death as 1910 at St. Mary’s; he may be deceased but was somehow mistakenly enumerated, which would explain why his wife is listed as head of household.

Sylvian 1911

(11) Olivier was still in Ste Marie with his wife Celeste and eleven children. He was a farmer.

1911 oliver

(7) Hennrietta, (9) Cécile & (10) Vital were not definitively identified in the 1911 census. (4) Hippolite died 18 Jun 1911 in Grande-Digue; his family has not been located in the 1911 census.

1921 Canadian Census

Joseph died suddenly on 26 May 1913  of “old age” and is likely buried in St Mary’s; he was 84 and a retired farmer.

jos death 2

Joseph death

(1) Cyrille, again widowed, was enumerated in St Mary’s, his son Edouard’s family was residing in the same home. His son Fidele was close by or perhaps on the same farm.

Cyrille 1921

(5) Dosithee/Docite was not identified in the 1921 census likely because there were large portions of the Moncton census, where the enumerator did not capture resident names (he just wrote “Westmoreland” next to each).  He was likely at 70 Pearl St., Moncton, the address that he, his wife and son Edmond all list as their home address when they immigrated to the United States the following year.

(6) Sigefroi resided in Dundas with his wife and son Honore. Another son, Adolphe, resided nearby (possibly in the same home).

sigfroid 1911

(11) Olivier was found in Ste Marie with his wife Celeste and 7 children.

Olivier 1921 census

(2) Pierre and (4) Hippolite were deceased by 1921; (8) Sylvain may have also been deceasedtheir wives were not found in the 1921 census.

(7) Hennrietta, (9) Cécile, (10) Vital and (12) Jude  were not definitively identified in the 1921 census. Some of them may have been in Moncton (Sylvain was there in 1911), there were large portions of the Moncton census, where the enumerator did not capture resident names (he just wrote “Westmoreland” next to each entry). It is also possible that some of them were residing in Massachusetts.

Other Details on the Children’s Lives 

This section incomplete and likely has errors – seeking cousins to provide more details and corrections! – I have included a few supporting documents as thumbnails, “click” to see a larger version and have primarily used Ancestry.com, Archives.gnb.ca/ PANB), FamilySearch.org and as mentioned earlier, the work of Stephen White and Lucie LeBlanc Consentino.

(1) Cyrille, baptized  20 November 1847, became a farmer. Based on family birth/marriage/death records and census data from 1861 to 1921, it seems he resided his entire life in Ste Marie/St Mary’s. He married Genevieve Bastarache, at Ste. Marie de Mont-Carmel on 5 Nov 1872.  He had thirteen known children, two of whom died within days of each other in Oct 1881 and another infant who died the same day as his wife.

Children with Genevieve included:

(a) Calixte baptized 13 Sept 1873, Ste Marie (Drouin Collection); m. Marie LeBlanc, daughter of Urbain Leblanc and Barbe Richard (NOT his step-mother), 10 Jan 1898; employed as a farmer; d. 16 Apr 1932, Ste Marie, age 58 of cancer (1881 & 1891 census, death on PANB);
(b) Marie Adeline baptized 1875 (date unreadable), Mont-Carmel (Drouin Collection, 1881 & 1891 & 1901 census); m. abt. 1909 Jos Collett, son of Daniel (Drouin Collection).
(c) Melas(i)  baptized Mont-Carmel 1876 (Drouin Collection & 1881 & 1891 & 1901 census); m. Henrietta LeBlanc (death cert.); d. 1 Aug 1945, St. Cyrille, of heart complications age 69, 4 months (PANB);
(d) Fidele b. 4 Feb 1878, St. Mary (death cert., 1881 & 1891 & 1901 & 1911 census); m. first Octavia LeBlanc, daughter of Urbain LeBlanc and Barbe Richard (NOT his step-mother), 3 Nov 1902, Mont Carmel (PANB marriage); she died in 1948; m. second Arthemise LeBlanc, also a widower, daughter of Marc Leblanc and Osite Goguen, 11 Jun 1950, Dundas Parish (death cert. & PANB marriage); Fidele d. 27 May 1956, St Cyrille of pneumonia/hemiplegia (paralysis of the arm, leg, and trunk on the same side of the body) age 78, 2 months, 23 days (PANB) he is buried at Ste Marie with his first wife, Octavia  (http://www.acadian-cemeteries.acadian-home.org/);

(e) Celestin baptized 5 July 1879, Mont-Carmel (birth from Drouin Collection, included in the 1881 census); buried 4 Oct 1881, Ste Marie (Drouin Collection);
(f) Marie Anne baptized 20 Sept 1880, Mont-Carmel (Drouin Collection & 1881 census); buried 10 Oct 1881, Ste Marie (Drouin collection);
(g) Marie b. abt 1882 (1891 census, age 8);
(h) Donat baptized 5 Oct 1883, Mont-Carmel (birth from Drouin Collection, 1891 & 1901 & 1911 census), m. Marie Alice Collet/Collette, daughter of Domin Collette and Helene Bourque, 19 Aug 1912 at St Mary’s, he was a 29 year old farmer (PANB marriage); buried St. Marie 1965 with his wife Alice b. 1893 d. 1977 (http://acadian-cemeteries.acadian-home.org/).

(i) Alphee/Alphie b. 21 April 1885, Ste Marie (1918 WWI attestation papers); baptized 2 May 1885, Mont-Carmel (Drouin Collection, 1891 & 1901 & 1911 census); in 1918 he was residing in Bangor, Maine and is single. Occupation is Woodman (1918 WWI attestation papers);
(j) Elizabeth b. 1887 St. Mary’s (1891 & 1901 census); m. Maxime LeBlanc son of Germaine LeBlanc and Delphine abt 1908.
(k) Madeline b. 3 June 1888, St. Mary’s (PANB birth & 1891 & 1901 & 1911 census);
(l) Edouard  b. 15 Oct 1889, St. Mary’s (PANB birth & 1891 & 1901 & 1911 & 1921 census); m. Mathilda LeBlanc daughter of Camille LeBlanc and Marie Belliveau on 30 Aug 1915 in Bouctouche (PANB).
(m) Antoine buried 27 Apr 1892, he was baptized 28 April 1892 in Mont-Carmel.  The death record, in French, seems to indicate that he was age 4 months.

Genevieve was buried 27 Apr 1892, age 41; the same day as her infant son (possibly from complications related to childbirth).  Cyrille at age 52, married second Barbe Richard, also a widow, daughter of Joseph Richard and Josephine Cormier, on 5 Nov 1894, at Ste Marie. They had no known children together. She died of heart disease on 7 Oct 1915 at age 69 (PANB) and is buried at Ste Marie (http://acadian-cemeteries.acadian-home.org/).

gen bass

Cyrille may have died on 8 February 1927.  A gravestone with that date, in Ste Marie lists his correct age of about 79  (http://acadian-cemeteries.acadian-home.org/).  The death certificate names a different mother (Victorie Richard) and an age of 84. Perhaps the informant, his son Calixte, made a mistake. His burial record has not been located in the Drouin Collection. There was a second Cyrille Roy born in the same place in the same time frame, son of Joseph Roy and Pelagie LeBlanc, who married Agnes Nowlan, and died in 1884 (Drouin Collection), so the gravestone/death certificate  is likely not his.

Cyrille marriagesdeath genevivecyrille death 1927cyrille death 1927

(2) Pierre, baptized 30 November 1849 in Bouctouche, resided in Ste. Marie through at least 1891 (based on census data). He was not found in the 1901 census.  By 1911 he and his family had moved to Dundas parish (Cocagne).

It is likely that he married Madeline Bastarache on 29 May 1873 at Ste Marie de Mont Carmel after being granted dispensation for the 3rd degree of consanguinity.  The parents are not named on the marriage record, however they did have a son name Joseph Francois Roy and other children with similar Roy family, given names.  This particular Pierre was enumerated two families after Cyrille Roy, in the 1881 census. This Pierre’s death certificate in Cocagne, lists a Bouctouche birth, the same location where our Pierre, of the same age, was baptized.

Known children number twelve or thirteen:
(a) Maxime, b. 28 Oct 1874, Buctouche or Ste Marie (marriage & death cert., 1881, 1891 census); m. Emilienn Daigle, a widow, daughter of Camille Daigle and the late Marie Bastarache, on 21 Nov 1910 in the Parish of Dundas/Cocagne; Maxime in 1910 is a laborer of New Bedford, Massachusetts (PANB); d. 8 Mar 1856 in Cocagne of coronary artery disease, age 82, 4 months (PANB).
(b) Suzanne, b. 1877  (1881, 1891 census, PANB marriage) m. 19 Nov 1912 Clovis Leger of Grande-Digue, son of  Aman Leger and Suzanne Cormier, she was of Cocagne;
(c) Hippolyte, baptized 10 April 1878, in Mont-Carmel (Drouin Collection, 1881 census); d. 24 May 1882 in Mont-Carmel (Drouin Collection).
(d) Joseph Francois, b. 30 Mar 1880, Ste Marie (1881, 1891 census); m. Arthemise Leblanc (PANB death cert.);  d. 26 Feb 1949 in Cocagne (PANB)
(e) Guillerme (Willie), b. 1882 Ste Marie (1891 census); m. first 9 Aug 1910, Ida Babineau, daughter of Urbain Babineau and Suzanne Despres in Grande-Digue (PANB); widowed; m. second Marguerite, daughter of Placide Landry and Julie Legere, 28 Nov 1931, residence Cocagne, he is a farmer (PANB).
(f) Amedee, b. 1884, Bouctouche (1891 census); m. 20 Sept 1909, Magdeline Martin, resident of New Bedford, Massachusetts, born at St. Mary’s; she was the daughter of Felicien Martin and Genevieve Allain.  He is a laborer residing in Cocagne (PANB).
(g) Irene (?), b. 1886 (1891 census, male);
(h) Marie Vitaline, baptized April 1887, Mont Carmel (Drouin Collection, 1891 census); d. 17 Oct 1903, 16 year old farmer’s daughter, Bouctouche, of consumption (Drouin Collection).
(i) Joseph Edmond b. 18 Oct 1889, St Marys (1891 census, PANB birth);
(j) Marie Elizabeth, b. 23 May 1891, St Marys (PANB birth);
(k) Marie Ann, b. 16 Dec 1892, St Marys (PANB birth);
(l) Joseph Alban, b. 1 May 1893, St Marys (1911 census, PANB birth);
(m) Alfred b. April 1898 (1911 census); [same child as #14? births are a month apart? or typo on birth year?]
(n) Joseph Francois, b. 16 Mar 1898, Buctouche (PANB birth)

Pierre died 9 Oct 1912 in Cocagne, after an illness of 15 days, of pneumonia. He was a 62 year old farmer. Madeline died 12 Oct 1924 in Cocagne, she was 70; her daughter Suzanne also of Cocagne, was the informant. Madeline’s death record indicates she was born to Thaddee Bastarache and Suzanne Cormier.

pierre marriagePierre death82483841-bfb0-432b-aa5c-519ea21d2d55


(4) Hyppolyte/Hippolite, baptized 9 Feb 1853, was not found with the Roy family in any census, his mother died when he was an infant, and he was adopted and raised by Eustache Poirier [see marriage record] and his wife Cecile Legere (daughter of Simon Legere and Marie-Rose Arsenault and his mother’s biological cousin).  He resided with them in 1871 in Grande-Digue and was enumerated as Hyppolyte Poirier. It is unknown whether he had a relationship with his biological family, nonetheless, with the exception of this census, all records seem to indicate that he used the Roy surname for his lifetime.

He married Marie Rose Richard Jun 1876, in Grande-Digue, daughter of Hubert Richard and Marie Poirer. By 1881 they were residing in Moncton and Hyppolyte was a farmer. The family was not found in 1891, 1901 or 1911 Canadian censuses but were likely residing in Grande-Digue based on the children’s baptism records.

Known children include:
(a) William (Willie)/Guillaume, baptized 6 June 1877, Grande-Digue (Drouin Collection, 1881 census); m. Agnes Caissie, daughter of Theotime Caissie  and Marie Caissie on 19 Jun 1899, Grande-Digue (Drouin Collection);
(b) Marie Elizabeth baptized 28 February 1881, Grande-Digue (Drouin Collection, 1881 census); d. 1896, Grande-Digue (Drouin Collection);
(c) Joseph Pierre, baptized 27 June 1883, Grande-Digue (Drouin Collection);
(d) Joseph Henri, baptized 14 May 1885, Grande-Digue (Drouin Collection); m. Demerise Bourque of Scoudouc; at the time of their marriage, he was a resident of Moncton working as a carpenter. About 1917, he relocated to Lynn, Massachusetts (according to his border crossing paperwork in 1922). In 1937 he resided in Lynn, Massachusetts (sister Leonie and Marguerite’s obituaries).
(e) Marie Philomene, baptized 27 July 1887, Grande-Digue (Drouin Collection);
(f) Marie Marguerite, b. 24 Nov 1891,  Grande-Digue (PANB); m. Henri Gallant in Grande-Digue son of Joseph and Julie (Drouin Collection); d. Jan 1937 in Grande-Digue (Evangeline obituary); her death causes a great void.

Marguerite roy death
(g) Marie Florine, b. 13 Feb 1898, Grande-Digue (PANB); he visited her brother Henri in the United States, 29 Dec 1922 (Manifest Cards of Alien Arrivals at Vanceboro, Maine). in 1937 resided in Newburyport, Massachusetts (sister Leonie and Marguerite’s obituaries).
(h) Marie Leonie, b. 12 Nov 1899,  Grande-Digue (PANB); m. Dominique Thibodeau, and resided in Rogerville, Northumberland, New Brunswick. She visited her brother Henri in the United States, 29 Dec 1922 (Manifest Cards of Alien Arrivals at Vanceboro, Maine). She died 4 Nov 1937 (Evangeline obituary), age 45, after a two month illness of Typhoid Fever, she never complained.  She was a good person, a friend to everyone who needed her.

Leonie death

Hyppolyte died 18 June 1911, at the age of 60 [he was actually 58?], in Grande-Digue of “brain trouble” and pneumonia after being sick for a week.

865dd4a0-9386-46d3-810e-5893a7c2ac01 (1)hypolete marriage

(5) Dosithee/Docite, baptized 30 July 1857 (my 2nd g-grandfather), became a farmer. He married first, on 2 Feb 1880, at Ste Marie de Mont Carmel, Genevieve Cormier daughter of the deceased Aimé Cormier and deceased Henriette Roy after being granted dispensation for the 4th degree of double consanguinity. She died six months later, at age 19, on 24 Aug 1880 and was buried 27 Aug at Ste Marie de Mont Carmel.

On 12 May 1885, he married second,  Victorie LeBlanc, at Ste Marie de Mont Carmel, daughter of George LeBlanc and Madeline LeBlanc.   Known children included:

(a) Pius/Paul Dost (my g-grandfather) b. 9 Jul 1886 Ste. Marie (US draft registration), m. 25 Dec 1910, Laura Marie Melanson, daughter of Maglorie Melanson and Osite/Ausithe Dupuis in Gardner, Massachusetts (Massachusetts Vital Records);  Pius was in the US from 1904-1910; he and his wife moved back to New Brunswick until 1914 when they returned to Massachusetts permanently; in 1921 he was a chair maker later in life he became a welder/drill washer; he was known as “Pepe”, his granddaughter recalls that he did maple sugaring; he moved from Gardner to a farm in Athol about 1947; Another granddaughter recalls, “Pepe was an alcoholic who made his own home brew, and rarely was able to work.  Laura had a very sad life, she raised their children close to abject poverty. She basically ran the small family furniture business. Leo, her next to youngest child, was caught in their apartment building fire, and was severely burned. Laura cared for him until he died about eight days later”.

Pius died 9 Aug 1954 in Athol, Massachusetts; his granddaughter recalls “one night a cow got out and Pepe and my Dad spent a rainy night looking for it, Pepe, who continued to drink heavily became Sick and died shortly after”.

Laura relocated to St. Petersburg, Florida in 1955 to live with her daughter Alida’s family; her other children didn’t seem to have much contact, nor did they assist financially. “Meme” (Laura) had really, really long hair that she washed in a rain barrel and braided daily, but she cut it short upon her arrival in Florida. She had no friends there, did not drive and became very isolated.  Her only outlets were church and a weekly bingo game. Her granddaughter recalls: “She was never a physically demonstrative person but showed her love by baking our favorite treats. I remember opening the door from school to the smell of warm pies and bread. She always made me a tiny pie all to myself.  She collapsed one day from abdominal pain. Dad and Mom rushed her to the hospital. She died a few hours later from abdominal cancer. The doctors said she must have been in awful pain but never let on. I still miss her.”

Laura died 3 November 1968.  She is buried with her husband at Gethsemane Cemetery in Athol. Their eight known children were – (1) Leo, (2) Yvonne Marie (my grandmother, who married Charles Billings of Lithuanian descent), (3) Joseph Maglorie, (4) Melisse “Nelsey”, (5) Lena, (6) Edmund Sylvio, (7) Alfred and (8) Alida; Sadly, three of their children Alfred, Yvonne and Lena became alcoholics like Pepe.

Paul Pius Roy
(b) Marie Albina b. 10 July 1888, St. Mary’s; d. 13 April 1899, St. Mary’s, of consumption, age 10, she was ill for 18 months (PANB & listed 1891 census);
(c) Mathilda b. 3 Aug 1890, St. Mary’s (1891 & 1901 census);  m. Cyrille Allain, son of Melen Allain and Marie Blanche LeBlanc, on 7 Jun 1910 in Gardner, Massachusetts, she was a “shop girl” he was a carpenter; they returned to St Mary at least from 1911 to 1913 (3 children born), then according to boarder crossing paperwork, resided in the US from 1917 to at least 1921 (they were not found in the 1920 census or US city directories); at some point they returned to Canada as Mathilda was living in St Antoine, Canada in 1954 (brother Pius’ obituary), Cyrille, a farmer, died 5 Jun 1956, age 76,  from cancer of the pancreas; she died 1972 and is buried in Kent County, St-Antoine  New Cemetery; known children include –  (i) Joseph Benoni b. 17 Mar 1911, St Mary’s; (ii) Marie Elise b. 29 Feb 1912, St Mary’s; (iii) Marie Albina b. 19 May 1913, St Mary’s

mathilda grave
(d) Marie Emma b. 25 Dec 1892, St Mary’s (1901 census);
(e) Aurelie b. 27 Jul 1896, St Mary’s (PANB birth, not with the family in the 1901 census, likely died young);
(f) Diendonné/Joseph Hector b. 3 Sep 1898, St Mary’s; d. as infant 20 Apr 1899, of Grippe, at St Mary’s (PANB);
(g) Edmond Doss b. 20 Aug 1902, St Mary’s; 1954 was living Moncton (1911 census & brother Pius’ obituary) and in Feb 1967 he filed for a delayed birth certificate for himself in Moncton;
(h) Joseph Diendonné b. 17 May 1906, St Mary’s (not included in the 1911 census); likely died 2 Sep 1909, St Mary’s, of Measles, he was sick for 2 months (PANB)

Dosithee/Docite continued working as a farmer, until sometime prior to 1901 when he took a job as a Millman in Lancaster, St. John, New Brunswick (where they seem to use the surname King). In 1901 he was employed at the factory for five months and reported an income of $50. In 1902, Edmond Doss’s birth record (created in 1967) claims he was born in Randolph (a neighborhood in the West Side o Lancaster which in 1967 became known as St John West) his father was a mill ride.

At some point, before 1922, the family relocated to Moncton.

Dosithee/Docite, at age 63 was described as 5’7″, 135 pounds and having a fair complexion, gray hair and blue eyes and could not read or write , when he immigrated “permanently” to Gardner, Massachusetts from Moncton in May 1923. Family members who previously immigrated to Gardner included his wife Victorie (admitted 9 Dec 1922; described as 5’6″, medium complexion, brown hair and eyes; her visit to Gardner was to be less than six months; her address was 70 Pearl St., Moncton) , son Pius/Paul (in the US from 1904-1910; 1915 to 21 May 1921 and returning 23 May 1921 to 244 Parker St. Gardner – he was 5’5″ with a dark complexion, black hair, brown eyes) and son Edmond (admitted 18 July 1922; with an address of 70 Pearl St. Moncton; contact brother Paul, 244 Parker St, Gardner, MA and planning a visit for less than six months, described as 5’5″, light complexion, brown hair green eyes).  It was Dosithee/Docite’s first visit to the United States.

Dosithee/Docite and Victoria are listed in the 1924 Gardner city directory (he is a clerk).  Many other Roy’s are listed nearby, including sons Pius and Edmond. He was not found in other online city directories, including the 1926 Gardner directory.

1924 city directories

Dosithee/Docite and Victorie ultimately returned to New Brunswick where they died and are buried. On 16 Nov 1932, his death at age 75 of lobar pneumonia, with a contributing factor of old age, is recorded at Ste Marie.  Her death of “old age” was reported  at Ste Marie on 25 Sept 1934. She was 70.

Docite marriage 1st death genevieveDocite marriage

doss to USdoss deathvictorie death

(6) Sigefroi (Sigefroie/Sigefroy), baptized 12 November 1858,  became a farmer. He first married Judule Landry, 26 Nov 1877, at Ste. Marie de Mont-Carmel after being granted dispensation for the 4th degree of consanguinity. Neither set of parents are named, however Sigefroi’s brother Docite Roy was a witness. She was likely the daughter of Maxime Landry and Suzanne Roy/Roi (she is listed as their daughter in the 1871 census, she was age 16; they were also named as parents of her then 18 year old brother David, in his baptism record, in the Drouin Collection).

They had at least two children:
(a) Eugenie baptized 2 Aug 1880 in Mont-Carmel (1881 census, Drouin Collection), likely died young, since Sigefroi had a second child who was given the same name in 1889;
(b) Donat born 3 May 1881 (death cert.) and baptized 27 July 1881,  in Mont-Carmel (Drouin Collection, 1891, 1901, 1911 census); m. when he was 37 year old bachelor, Lucille Robichaud, daughter of Placide Robichaud and Brigitte Guimont, 4 Mar 1919 in Pointe-Sapin  (PANB); d. 13 May 1947, age 66, 1 month in Pointe-Sapin; his son Alfred was the informant (PANB).

Sigefroi was not described as a widow when he married his second wife and no death record was located for Judule. Her whereabouts are unknown but she likely died as Donat appeared to reside with his father.

He married second, on 5 Jun 1887, Marie LeBlanc daughter of Laurent LeBlanc and Marie Legere at Memramcook, Parish of St. Thomas. In 1891 he was a farmer residing in  Grande-Digue, parish of Dundas, Kent, New Brunswick.  There was an 83 year old Thadee LeBlanc residing with the family, perhaps a relation to his wife. They spent a few years in Taunton, Massachusetts where Sigefroi was employed as an Operative (at least 1895-97 when two children were born).

Some of  their children are known.
(c) Adolphe b. 1888 (1891, 1901 census, lives next door to his parents in Grande-Digue, in 1911); married Marie ___  (1911 census)
(d) Marie Eugenie b. 1889 (1891, 1901 census); m. David Bourque and resided in Gardner, Massachusetts in 1920 near her uncle Docitée Roy;
(e) Joseph Alfred b. 1892;
(f) Honore b. 1893 in Grande-Digue (1901, 1911, 1921 census); he visited his sister Mrs. David Borque at 147 Mechanic St., Gardner, Massachusetts in Nov 1920, he planned to stay less than 6 months (he had returned to Canada by the time the Jun 1921 census was taken). He had $100 and declared himself as single, age 27, working as a farm laborer. He had visited Gardner previously in 1915/6.  On arrival in 1920 he was diagnosed with “Angioma of the Scalp” ( little, bright red, pinpoint to match head sized, flat spots that over time, become raised, more dome shaped and actually begin to look like a cherry. They are benign).
(g) Marie Sarah Elmire b. 14 Apr 1895, Taunton, Massachusetts (Massachusetts vital records);
(h) Edmond b. 13 Feb 1896, Taunton, Massachusetts (Massachusetts vital records, 1901, 1911 census). His Canadian WWI draft recruitment papers, dated 1918, describe him as age 22,  5’4″, medium complexion, brown eyes and hair. He is a single farmer residing in Grand-Digue.

After Marie died (before 1901), he resided in Grande-Digue, with his third wife Adele Cormier of Cocagne (parents and marriage year unknown; he was noted a widower). They had no known children.

He became a Day Carpenter. He died at the age of 68 on 15 Feb 1926. Cause of death “me syncope mort inhibite pas de medium”, syncope is defined as the brief loss of consciousness caused by a temporary decrease in blood flow to the brain. He is buried at Grande-Digue Notre-Dame de la Visitation. His wife, Adele died in Shediac, 20 February 1930 at age 74.

sig marriage 1sigs marriagehonore marriagemarriage one sigfroi


b9ce5fa1-1630-4a5e-9bda-849f29c885f9sig death14ae1159-ca16-48ec-b515-f7abb703be40DSC06737

(7) Henriette, baptized 2 December 1860, married Domicien LeBlanc (the widower of Genevieve Cormier and son of Jean LeBlanc and Madeline Brault of Cocagne St-Pierre) on 9 Aug 1886 in Ste. Marie de Mont-Carmel.  Her known children are:
(a) Rose-Anne, b. about 1887 (1891 census); m. 5 April 1919, Philippe Cormier, son of Louis Corier and Elizabeth Cormier, giving her residence as Cocagne and names Henriette and Domicien as parents.
(b) Sara b. 27 Oct 1888, St Mary’s (PANB);
(c) Vital b. 26 Aug 1890, Bouctouche (PANB);  m. 19 Feb 1917 Marie Anne Bastarache, daughter of Dominique Bastarache and Dina LeBlanc, Moncton (http://www.acadian-roots.com/ – microfilm #1900-1 at the CEA genealogy center);
(d) Maria Elisa b. 15 Jan 1892 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTSV-KXK); likely married in Mont-Carmel, 5 Feb 1912, Alyre Bastarache, son of Dominique Bastarache and Dina LeBlanc (PANB); by 1932 they were residing in Moncton (her mother’s death cert).

The family was not found in the 1901, 1911 or 1921 Canadian censuses so there were likely additional children.

Henriette died at the age of 72 on 22 January 1932, cause of death was probably apoplexy (unconsciousness or incapacity resulting from a cerebral hemorrhage or stroke). She was a retired housewife and had been residing at 33 Harper’s Lane in Moncton, Canada for four months (the same address as her son-in-law Alyre Bastarache) and claims that she lived in New Brunswick her entire life.  She was buried in Moncton at the Shediac Road. Her husband’s death record has not been located.

henrietta marriageHenriette deathRoseanne marriage

(8) Sylvain, baptized 12 December 1861, married Marie Maillet, daughter of Calixte Maillet and Suzanne Richard at Ste. Marie de Mont-Carmel on 10 April 1881.

They had 13 known children (including a set of triplets!):
(a) Addelle b. 1883 (1891, 1901 census);
(b) Henriette b, 1884 Mont Carmel (1891, 1901 census, marriage record gives birth location); m. 9 Jan 1911, Levi Robichaud son of the late Aime Robichaud and Onsite Cormier, both were of St. Anthony (PANB); in 1911 the are residing in St Antoine, Kent, New Brunswick (1911 census).
(c) Zèlie b. 1886 (1891, 1901 census); likely died at age 19 of fever, 1906 in Moncton (PANB);
(d) Jean b. 26 Mar 1888, St Mary’s (PANB birth, 1891, 1901 census);
(e) Marie Azelda b. 15 Dec 1889, St. Mary’s (PANB birth, 1891, 1901 census);
(f) Susan b. 18 May 1891, St Mary’s (PANB birth);
(g,h,i) triplets – J, MC & M b. 22 May 1892, St Mary’s  (PANB); likely died as they are not included in any census;
(j) Madélaine b. 26 July 1893, St Mary’s (PANB birth, 1901 & 1911 census); m. 9 Nov 1914 Jean Alfred, son of Hubert Richard & Delphine Richard (http://www.acadian-roots.com/marriages-catherale.html);
(k) Alpheé b. 20 Mar 1895, St Mary’s (PANB birth, 1901 & 1911 census), m. Yvonne, daughter of Urbain Babineau and Euphemie Goguen 26 April 1919 in Moncton (PANB);
(l) Calixte b. 7 Dec 1896 (or 7 Sep 1896), St Mary’s (PANB birth, 1901 & 1911 census); m. 7 July 1914, Rosalie Cormier, daughter of Auguste Cormier and Julie LeBlanc in Moncton (PANB); Rosalie died 14 Dec 1915, in Bouctouche at age 23, of Meningitis after being sick for 13 days (PANB); Calixte, a soldier, married second, in 1917, Herminie “Minnie” Leblanc, daughter of Felicien LeBlanc and Matilde Leger (Drouin Collection); Calixte and Minnie likely immigrated to the United States through Vanceboro, Maine, on 7 Sept 1917 (certificate of lawful entry, Ancestry.com); in 1930 Calixte and Minnie were residing on Parker street in Gardner, Massachusetts with a niece, by 1940 he was still in Gardner but listed as widow (1930/40 census), her death record has not been located; in 1941, he married third Elizabeth Ann Leblanc, parents unknown, in Gardner, Massachusetts (Ancestry.com, Massachusetts marriage index vol 59, pg 152); in 1942 he resided at 188 Parker Street, Gardner with Elizabeth and worked for Heywood Wakefield (1942 WWII draft, Ancestry.com);  in 1942 he was described as 5’6″, having blue eyes, brown hair and was partially bald with a scar on his left arm; (certificate of lawful entry Ancestry.com); d. 1967, and is buried in Bouchtouche, St-Jean Baptiste, with his wife Elizabette Anne b. 1895 – d. 1973 (gravestone photo below).
(m) Guillaume/William b.1901 (1901 & 1911 census).

There was a Sylvain Roy, a farmer, died 27 Aug 1910, at St Mary’s from cancer after an 18 month illness; he was 49 (PANB).

By 1911, Sylvain’s wife and the four youngest children had relocated to Moncton and were enumerated under the surname King. Marie is listed as head of household and Sylvain is listed as “husband”.  It is unclear if the Sylvain that died at St. Mary’s was the same person.

The family was not found in the 1921 Canadian Census.  No death record has been located for Marie Maillet.

sylvain marriagecalixte burial

(9) Cécile, baptized 4 June 1866, married on 24 April 1885 Jean/John Collet (Collette), son of Daniel Collet and the deceased Gertrude Allain at Ste. Marie de Mont-Carmel after being granted dispensation for the 4th degree of consanguinity.

She had eleven known children:
(a) Calixte b. 1886 (1891 & 1901 census);
(b) Adolphe 7 April 1888, St. Mary’s (PANB); may have died young as another child was given this name in 1896 and he is not listed in any census;
(c) Angeline b. 8 April 1889 , St. Mary’s (PANB, 1891 & 1901 census);
(d) Marie Elda b. 22 Mar 1891, St. Mary’s (PANB); may have died young, not included in the 1901 census with the family;
(e) Joseph Delphis b. 18 June 1894, St. Mary’s (PANB, 1901 census); in 1916, at age 21, he was residing in Moncton, working as a clerk (Canadian WWI attestation papers) ; on 27 April 1920, he departed St John, for a visit to the United States;  point of contact was his sister Mrs. M. LeBlanc of 192 Collette St., New Bedford, Massachusetts; his immigration paperwork claimed he would be in the country less than six months; it stated that he enlisted in the military 9 Feb 1916 in Moncton and was discharged 10 Mar 1919, he was single working as a store clerk; in 1921 he married Marv Alma Houde in Gardner, Massachusetts (Massachusetts Marriage Index, vol 20, pg 475); in 1930 & 1940, he was enumerated in Gardner with his wife Alma and children; by 1942 he resided at 137 Connors, Gardner, with his wife Alma and was employed by Heywood Wakefield furniture, Gardner; he was 5’9″, 148 pounds, with blue eyes, brown hair and dark complexion (WWII draft registration); he died in 1949 in Gardner (Massachusetts Death Index, vol 46, pg 231);
(f) Joseph Adolphe b. 1 July 1896, St. Mary’s (PANB, 1901 census); m. 19 Sep 1935, Florence Surette, daughter of Frank Surette and Georgina Donelle, he was a Marchand (Merchant/Dealer/Seller) residing in Bouctouche (PANB); d. 1979 and is buried at Chartersville; the grave inscription reads: “COLLETTE Adolphe 1896-1979 wife Florence Surette 1913-1973 son Leo Paul 1935-2003″ (http://www.acadian-cemeteries.acadian-home.org/);

(g) Daniel b. 14 Dec 1898, St. Mary’s (PANB, 1901 census); m. 30 Sept 1919, Marie Emma Goguen, daughter of Levi Goguen and Veronique Arsenault, on the date of the marriage, Daniel was a day laborer residing in Bouctouche (PANB); “Emma Goguen was the daughter of Levi Goguen and Veronique Arsenault. She passed away November 3 1999 at the age of 99 (ninety nine) at the Saint Jean Baptiste home in Bouctouche. She married twice first to Daniel Collette and second to Emile Babineau. She leaves to mourn her six daughters; Louise Fournell of Quebec, Aldea Adames and Marie Busse of Moncon, Hermilie Brune, Fernande Couture and Cecile Francis of Bouctouche, one son John of Bouctouche along with 33 grandchildren, 45 great grandchildren, and five great great grandchildren. She was predeceased by five sons, Gerald, Aime, Donald and two infants. Also predeceased by three brothers Clifford, Edmond and Fidele. Funeral held in St Jean Baptiste Catholic Church in Bouctouche, interment in the parish cemetery”.(Acadie Nouvelle November 1999);
(h) Pius b. 1901 (visited and may have resided in Gardner for a time); m. 26 July 1928, Marie Scolastie Roy daughter of John Roy and Agelie LeBlanc, at the time of the marriage he was a commerçante (retailer/businessman) living in Bouctouche (PANB);
(i) Marie Azilda b. 3 Sept 1903, Mount Carmel (PANB); likely married Leo Arthur Bergeron in New Bedford, Massachusetts in 1926 (Massachusetts Marriage Index, Vol 37, Page 188); resided in Gardner 1930; d. 23 Sep 1970, New Bedford (SSDI & Massachusetts Death Index);
(j) Maria Regina b. 11 Feb 1906, Bouctouche (PANB); m. Odilon Cormier son of Melase Cormier and Euphremie LeBlanc, 21 May 1925; the marriage was registered at Wellington and both parties were residents of Bouctouche (PANB); d. May 1971 and is buried at Bouctouche, St Jean Baptiste (http://www.acadian-cemeteries.acadian-home.org/);

(k) Exilda b. 1 Oct 1907, Bouctouche (PANB);

Cécile and her family were not located in the 1911 or 1921 Canadian census.

Cécile and her husband are buried at the Saint Jean Baptiste Roman Catholic Cemetery in Bouctouche. The inscription on their stone reads: COLLETTE John D 1863-1944 h/o Cecile Roy 1864-1941.

marriage collettececile death

(10) Vital, born 12 March 1868 [1901 census] and baptized 30 March 1868, became a House Carpenter.  He was between 5’5″ – 5’8″ , med/dark complexion, dark brown hair, green/brown eyes and weighed about 150 pounds.  He married first Henriette LeBlanc 22 April 1887 at Ste Marie, daughter of Georges LeBlanc and Madeline LeBlanc.  They had one known child:

(a) Georges, b. 13 Mar 1889, St. Mary’s (PANB birth); d. 1892, age 3, buried 6 June in Ste Marie de Mont-Carmel (Drouin Collection death).

Henriette died 29 Jan 1890 and is buried at Ste Marie de Mont-Carmel (PANB, http://www.acadian-cemeteries.acadian-home.org/).



He married second on 25 April 1892, at St Thomas, Memramcook, Marguerite LeBlanc, daughter of Maxime and Marguerite LeBlanc, and had at least 11 children, all of whom were named on Marguerite’s tombstone (see photo – reads Mere de Joseph, Samuel, Maxime, Leon, Antoine, Pierre, Marie-Jeanne, Vital, Marie, Alyre, Anne):

(b) Joseph Pierre, b. 6 July 1893, Taunton, Massachusetts (MA vital records, 1901 census);
(c) Joseph Phelomene (Samuel) b. 13 May 1895, St Mary’s (PANB birth, relocated to Massachusetts using the name Samuel);
(d) Pierre (Maxime) b. 29 June 1897, St Mary’s (PANB birth as Pierre, 1901 census and mother’s tombstone as Maxime);
(e) Joseph Leon b. 01 Jan 1900, St Mary’s;  baptized 01 Jan 1900, Ste Marie de Mont-Carmel (Drouin Collection, 1901 census); m. 7 July 1919, Elise Lavoie, age 24  born/residing in Rogersville, daughter of John Lamie and Celina Richard; Leon was living in Monton and working as a laborer (Drouin Collection). In 1921 they resided at 100 Lewis St, Moncton (1921 census);  They likely relocated to New Bedford, Massachusetts before Sep 1926, where their son was born, and then returned to Canada abt June 1927 (son Melvin’s 1947 border crossing paperwork and as detailed in his obituary – http://www.federationgenealogie.qc.ca/):

WRENTHAM — Melvin Thomas Roy, 78, of State Street, Plainville,
died Saturday, April 30, 2005, at the Maples Rehabilitation and Nursing
Center. He was the husband of Audrey M. (Cross) Roy. They were
married 48 years. Born in New Bedford on Sept. 26, 1926, he was the
son of the late Leon and Elise (Lavoie) Roy. After his birth, his family
moved to their native land of Canada where he was raised and educated.
A veteran of the Canadian armed forces, he served in the U.S. Army
upon returning to the United States. He was a cutter and engraver for
Creed Rosary for 32 years until retiring. He then was an attendant at the
Highlander Laundry on Elm Street in North Attleboro for two years.
Mr. Roy was a longtime communicant of St. Martha’s Church in
Plainville, where he was also a member of the church bowling league
for many years. He was a volunteer coach for the PAL Little League.
He enjoyed traveling, day trips, country music, Christmas, playing
cards, cook-outs and watching sports on television. He especially
enjoyed spending time with his grandchildren. Survivors include his
widow; three sons, Michael R. Roy of California, Gary T. Roy and John
L. Roy, both of Plainville; two daughters, Catherine J. Buckman of
North Attleboro, Linda M. Borges of Mansfield; 14 grandchildren; a
great-grandchild; and several nieces and nephews. He was the brother
of the late Leonard and Jean Roy. 
Leon died 1 April 1936, age 36 by poisoning in Allison, four miles from Moncton (PANB); In 1947, Elise was residing in Dieppe, New Brunswick (son Melvin’s 1947 border crossing paperwork).
(f) Joseph Antoine b. 23 June 1900, Bouctouche (birth index Family Search; relocated permanently to Salem, Massachusetts in 1922, occupation blacksmith; names father Vitale and birthplace Bouctouche, age 20 whch puts his birth at 1902?);
(g) Marie-Jeanne b. abt 1902, Bouctouche;  d. 1 Dec 1915, Bouctouche (PANB death, accidental discharge of a gun & http://www.acadian-cemeteries.acadian-home.org/);

jean marie
(h) Joseph Pierre b. 25 May 1905, Bouctouche (PANB birth, m. 1919 Alveda Gaudet);
(i) Joseph Vital, b. 12 Mar 1908, Bouctouche (PANB birth);
(j) Marguerite Marie, b. 12 Sept 1909, Bouctouche (PANB birth);
(k) Alyre Euloge, b. 11 March 1912, Bouctouche (PANB birth);
(l) Anne Marie Ida, b. 15 July 1915, Bouctouche (PANB birth).

Vital likely resided in St Mary’s and Bouctouche most of his life as ten of his children were born there between 1895 and 1915, but likely Vital and his family spent time living/visiting Taunton,  Salem and New Bedford, Massachusetts. He and his family were not located in the 1891, 1911 & 1921 Canadian censuses nor was he located in any US Federal censuses.

Their first son Joseph Pierre was born in Taunton in July 1893, Vital was employed as an operative.   By 1895, he had returned to St Mary’s, New Brunswick where their second son was born.

Vital claimed that he had resided in Salem from Apr 1915 to May 1917 when he visited his son Samuel in the US, Nov 1920 (his daughter Marie-Jeanne, age 13,  died in Bouctouche on 1 Dec 1915 from the accidental discharge of a gun. Vital reported the death so perhaps the dates of his stay in the US are a bit off.).  Vital’s wife and children (Maxime, Pierre,Vital, Marie, Alyre and Ida) returned from the United States to Canada, arriving at McAdam Junction, New Brunswick, on 30 Aug 1917. The length of their stay is unknown.

Vital was living at 516 North Front Street, New Bedford, Massachusetts when, on 8 Nov 1923, his wife Marguerite and children Pierre, Vital, Marie, Alyre and Ida/Anne again arrived in the United States, and declared they were staying permanently.  Vital must have returned to Canada after his Nov 1920 visit, as his wife’s arrival paperwork claims her husband had arrived 11 Oct 1922.

Son Samuel was residing in Salem according to Vital’s arrival paperwork filed in Vanceboro, Maine, dated 4 May 1916 and Samuel’s 1917 draft registration card.  By Nov 1920, Samuel was in New Bedford (Vital’s November arrival). Son Antoine relocated permanently to Salem on 7 Feb 1922 through St. John’s.  He claimed to have been in the United States from Jan 1917 to 7 July 1920. Son Leon arrived in the US on 30 July 1923 with his wife Elise; he claims it to be his first visit.  He had been residing at 196 Union in Moncton and was planning a visit of less than six months to his father’s home 125 Bates Ave., New Bedford.

Vital is found in the 1925 (92 Belleville Rd) and 1928 (194 Nash Rd) New Bedford city directories.

It seems some of the family returned to Canada by 1935 (Vital is included in Kent, New Brunswick voter lists), and his death certificate indicates he resided in Moncton, New Brunswick, the three years preceding his death; his last address was 6 Queen Street. He worked the day prior to his death. Cause of death, on 7 November 1939, at the age of 71, was coronary thrombosis (a blood clot inside a blood vessel of the heart). He is buried in the St-Jean Parish Cemetery in Bouctouche with his wife, who died 31 May 1960 at age 85 (http://acadian-cemeteries.acadian-home.org/).

vital marriagevital marriage 1f1635d3e-5401-4ed2-a595-7c89f3b3907cf1635d3e-5401-4ed2-a595-7c89f3b3907c-1vital visitmargerite to New Bedfordvital 1935vital death cert8f955d13-2987-4f1f-a7a9-43c9d8599fa9Vital death

(11) Olivier J., baptized 5 June 1870, married Celeste Cormier in 1892 at  at Ste. Marie de Mont-Carmel, daughter of Denis D. Cormier and Genevieve Roy (death certificate names mother as Marie LeBlanc), after being granted dispensation for the 3rd degree of consanguinity.

Known children number fifteen and include:
(a) Joseph Arthur b. 30 May 1893, St. Mary’s (PANB, 1901 & 1911 census); m. abt 1916, Amanda Goguen, daughter of Francois Xavier Goguen and Celina Melanson (Drouin Collection); in 1921 the couple resided in Ste Marie with three young children (1921 census);
(b) Marie Emma b. 25 Jan 1895, St. Mary’s (PANB, 1901 & 1911 census); m. Alyre Cormier, son of Onesime Cormier, 18 July 1915, St Mary’s (PANB).
(c) Joseph Alban b. 31 Aug 1896, St. Mary’s (PANB, 1901 & 1911 census); m. Gertrude Belliveau, daughter of Dosithe Belliveau and Rose Goguen, at Notre Dame, Kent, in 6 Aug 1917.  They were buried at Charterville Cemetery (Our Lady of Calvary or Notre Dame du Calvaire) located in Dieppe New Brunswick on the Chartersville Road – “ROY Alban 1896-1965 wife Gertrude Belliveau 1898-1970″ (http://www.acadian-roots.com/cemetery-chartersville-two.html).
(d) Marie Elia b. 11 June 1898, St. Mary’s (PANB, 1901 & 1911 census); married 8 Nov 1920, Alfred son of Francois Surette and Marie Goguen (http://www.acadian-roots.com/marriages-catherale.html);
(e) Angelique b. 3 Jan 1900 (“Canada, Births and Baptisms, 1661-1959,” index, FamilySearch, 1901, 1911 census); m. 9 August 1920, Eugene, son of Maxime Caissie & Jeanne Leblanc (http://www.acadian-roots.com/marriages-catherale.html);
(g) Marie Emelie b. 15 Feb 1902, St. Mary’s (PANB birth, 1911 & 1921 census), m. 2 May 1923, Arthur, son of Sigefroid Leblanc & Sylvie Girouard (http://www.acadian-roots.com/marriages-catherale.html);
(h) Joseph Denis 30 Apr 1903, St. Mary’s (PANB, 1911 census);
(i) Joseph b. 10 Aug 1904, Mont Carmel (PANB, 1911 & 1921 census);
(j) Joseph Amedee b. 1 Jan 1906, St Mary’s (PANB birth, 1911 & 1921 census);
(k) Marie M b. 16 July 1907, St. Mary’s (PANB birth – not listed in any census, likely died young);
(l) Marie Alice b. 2 Nov 1908, St. Mary’s (PANB, 1911 & 1921 census),
(m) Marie Melina b. 23 Jun 1910, St. Mary’s (PANB, 1911 & 1921 census),
(n) Marie Laure b. 19 Aug 1911, St. Mary’s (PANB birth, 1921 census),
(o) Joseph Desire b. 6 Aug 1916 , St. Mary’s (PANB, 1921 census); m. Eva LeBlanc daughter of Fidele LeBlanc and Marie LeBlanc 19 Oct 1942, Ste. Antonie (PANB).

Olivier, a cultivator (farmer); died 17 December 1947, of vieillesse (old age) at Ste. Marie, a 77 year old widower.  His wife died 2 October 1945, at Ste. Marie, age 76 of pneumonia.

Oliver's marriageOlivier death7258d239-8a32-4f74-bc2a-fc24b278998a

(12) Jude, baptized 24 June 1873,  married Marie LeBlanc, age 33, of St Mary’s,  daughter of Cyrille LeBlanc and Scolastique Goguen on 1 May 1905, at the church of Notre-Dame de Mont Carmel; she likely died before 1911.

In 1911, Jude was residing with his brother Docité in 1911 the married/single/widowed column is crossed off, but it appears that both he and his father Joseph are labelled “V” (widowed), see close up.


Jude may be the single 48 year old boarder living with Olivier Cormier’s family, 55 Com Hill St, Moncton in 1921. There was also a possible Jude Roy living in Gardner, Massachusetts and listed in city directories from 1919-1921, however there are no other Roy family members at the address listed for “Jude Roy” (and a potential match was not located in the 1920 Gardner census), so there is no way to determine if this is our Jude.  He has not been located in any further records in Canada or the United States (records searched include marriage/death indexes, US and Canada WWI draft records, immigration records and censuses).

Jude marriage 1Jude marriage 2jude 1921



52 Ancestors Week #27 – A Beginner’s Blunder

No Story Too Small has issued a New Year’s Challenge: “Have one blog post each week devoted to a specific ancestor. It could be a story, a biography, a photograph, an outline of a research problem — anything that focuses on one ancestor.”


I leapt into genealogy several years ago, when my “Great” Aunt Natalie shared 30 years of research.  I accept the pedigrees as fact, and entered them into an online tree.  She had collected some fascinating documents – diaries, photos, vital records, census data and lots of correspondence from many newly met “cousins”.

“Back in the day”, these cousins collaborated and concluded that  my 3rd-great grandfather, John Hains (Haynes), had two wives and ten children. Imagine my surprise when I came upon John’s probate records at NEHGS this past summer and discovered another grown child!  The mix up?  With his first wife, he had a daughter Elizabeth “Lizzie” Hains; with his second wife, an Annie Elizabeth Hains.


On page 9 of John’s 1901 probate file, his widow Jane names the surviving children:

….and three sons namely

Alexander Haynes in the city of Boston in the State of Massachusetts – Fisherman;

George Haynes of the city of New York in the State of New York – Sailor;

John Haines in Chelsea, State of Massachusetts – Laborer [my g-g-grandfather William John Hains who married Jennie Ferguson - her story here]

and four daughters

Mary Stevens wife of R.J. Stevens of Ishpeming in the State of Michigan – Agent;

Elizabeth Hegland wife of Oliver Hegland of Boston aforesaid Laborer;

Annie E. Morrell wife of Walter Morrell of Newcastle aforesaid – Mechanic and

Carrie S. Craik wife of William Craik of Newcastle aforesaid  – Laborer ….


Annie E. Morrell was a new name to me. And according to the paperwork passed on to me, Alexander Haynes was dead in 1901! Every tree online seems to concur!  Aunt Natalie’s note reads “lost at sea?”

So I am here today in the hopes that all those tree owners will find this blog post and update their records!  As a newbie, we all make mistakes, the key is to go back and “fix” things as we evolve genealogically…

Alexander Hains/Haynes

Thirty years later, quite a bit more is online. With a bit of armchair research, I found our Alexander.  His first wife, Susan M. Gorman, with whom he had no known children, died in 1875.



Alexander was in Boston after Susan’s death.  His sister Mary (who was living in Boston, working as a nanny for Henry Wadsworth Longfellow’s grandchildren) mentions him in her diary:


Alexander was a mariner.  He sunk Schooner Clytle in the fall of 1891.

boat sinking

[A fathom is a unit of length in the Imperial system used mostly for measuring the depth of water. There are 2 yards, ~ 6 feet in a fathom.]

In January 1900, he was enumerated in Gloucester, Massachusetts as a Fisherman.


At age 49, he married second, on 19 Feb 1900, a 24 year old Minnie E. Lewis.  The marriage record confirms Alex’s parents as John Haynes and Edith Childs of New Brunswick.  His occupation is “Captain”.  He relocated from Gloucester, Massachusetts to Booth Bay Harbor, Maine  and went on to have three children with Minnie – Edith Madeleine “Madeleine” Haynes b. 1901 [m. Phillip Westbrook Hodgdon], Ruth E Hains b. 1903 [m. Frank Irving Adams] and Herman Lewis Hains b. 1906 [no known spouse].

marriage 2

I was able to connect with one of Alexander’s descendants who writes: “I have a copy of a letter and an obituary for Alexander.  He died December 17, 1907 in the Cape Verde Islands from a “fever”. He shipped out of Gloucester.  The obit said he was from Mirimichi, New Brunswick.”

His wife Minnie did not appear to remarry.  She was reported to be a dressmaker. She and her young family moved in with her widowed mother by 1910.  She died 29 Aug 1969; age 98.

So what about our Elizabeths?

Elizabeth “Lizzie” (Hains) Heggeland

John’s daughter Annie Elizabeth (Hains) Morrell was included in the 1871 and 1881 Canadan censuses as “Annie”, yet I had attached those records to her half sister Elizabeth! Since Elizabeth is “missing” from the 1871 and 1881 Canadian and 1870 and 1880 United States censuses, my “facts” fit perfectly!


In reality, Elizabeth’s whereabouts are unknown from 1861 until she married Oliver/Ole Heggeland, a mariner born in Norway and residing in Chicago, 5 January 1887, in Chelsea, Massachusetts. She likely relocated to Chicago and had four children, Edith, Mabell, George Ole and Lilian, all of whom died as babies. The couple separated a few days after the death of their last living child. “Lizzie” returned to Boston (she is found there in 1900 working as a house servant) and eventually made her way to Vallejo, California (she is found there in 1910 working as a housekeeper for a private family) to live out her years near (and possibly with) her sister Mary. Although the census taker reports that she is single, she continues to use the surname Heggeland. She was not located in the 1920 census or the California death indices, but according to family lore, died there in 1921.


Lizzie married

Lizzie census


Annie Elizabeth (Hains) Morrell

Annie Elizabeth married Walter Morrell  “Daniel F. Johnson : Volume 63 Number 2075, Nov 27 1885, Saint John, The Daily Telegraph- m. At residence of bride’s father, 24th Nov., by Rev. T.G. Johnstone, Mr. MORELL, Newcastle (North. Co.) / Miss Annie HAINES, Derby”

They settled in Newcastle, Miramichi, New Brunswick, Canada and went on to have at least 10 children.

annie kids

According to family records, Annie lived until 28 May 1960 and was buried at Mirimachi.



Annie lived through both World Wars and sent sons off to each.  She seemed to be close to her children.  They wrote frequently and seemed to care deeply for their mother and siblings.  From my limited exposure, the “Haines boys” were all good looking, vivacious, “glass half full” type of characters. It is clear that Annie’s sons and grandsons were of the same mold.  An excerpt of a letter dated 1943 from England shows the personality.


The collection of letters can be found HERE.  The ones to Annie and between her children start half way down the page in the section labelled “MS4″.

Even if this isn’t your family, the letters are wonderful. Read a few (or all of them). Especially if you had ancestors stationed over in Europe during the war. If your ancestors were of Newcastle, Miramichi, New Brunswick, Canada in the same time period there is a chance they might be mentioned!

The fond description reads:

“Of particular interest are letters addressed to Walter Morell or his wife, Annie, from their sons, Fred, Herbert (Herb), and Horace (Horrie) who served overseas during the First World War. Herb writes most frequently but there are letters from all three soldiers. Horace Morell was killed in France on August 8, 1918 – but his two brothers returned home safely in 1919. These letters span the years, 1916-1919.  There are also letters (dated 1941-1945) from Walter and Annie’s youngest son, James (Jimmie) and their grandsons, brothers Fred Morell, Jr. and Horace Morell, who served overseas during World War II.  Many of the letters from the Morells serving overseas are addressed to Janet Morell or Annie Morell and occasionally other family members. 

The soldiers’ letters in this fonds are unusual because they are from two wars and six different soldiers all from one extended family.  Son Jim’s letter to his mother from Camp Sussex (sometime in 1941) as he prepared to go overseas indicated that for a mother to have sons in both wars was not normal; he wrote “For you to have to go through it all again after the last time isn’t any small thing.” Both the frequency with which the soldiers write, and their choice of words signify close family ties. They also indicate that they received lots of “goodies” and letters from the home front, which was vital to soldiers.  Letters contain details about how soldiers passed their time when not fighting and often contain news of their other Morell soldiers – amongst whom there was a lot of contact.

Finally, the fonds includes post war letters (1946-1958) to Janet Morell (in Montreal) from her mother, Annie Morell; a letter to Grandmother Annie and aunts Jen and Annie from Dilys Morell at Camp Medley, 1947; a genealogy of the Morell family and the annual report for St. James’ [Presbyterian] Church, Newcastle, December 1913.”

A few other sample letters/postcards:




This postcard is undated but is addressed to Annie and reads: “This is my home while I am in Edinburgh. It is a splendid place and well looked after. H [orace]


Letter from Fred Morrell to his mother Annie Elizabeth dated 10 Jan 1918 from France.  Fred speaks of being away from his unit and at artillery school for a six week course.  It is a nice break from warfare.  He mentions that his brother Horace had visited with lots of letters and then goes on to name several friends and cousins who he has run into while stationed in Europe.

letter from fred

In another letter, Annie’s son James Morrell dated 2 January 1945 [about 6 months after D-Day].  He thanks her for the gifts and speaks of the vast array of gifts that arrived for him and others, they will be feasting for weeks.  He describes their Thanksgiving meal and mentions the cigars smoked afterwards.  He speaks of a short trip to Paris, the bitter cold and their accommodations.  They seem to take up in old bombed houses, missing half the roof with broken windows but with beautiful furniture, now of little value, where they can  put their feet up and feel as though they are living extravagantly without worrying about getting [cigarette] ashes on the rug.  He speaks of people skating with queer wooden skates, men on leave to London and mentions an invite to a local home for New Years.  They spoke “half good English” but he is getting very good with sign language. Having been to France, Belgium. Holland and London Cockney he’s not sure what language he speaks but is becoming bilingual. He mentions McCartney being killed by a shell in Schelt, Holland and closes wishing her a Happy New Year.

letter 3


The moral to the story. Go back and “re-fact check” the ancestors added to your tree when you were a “newbie”  – confirm you have done a “reasonably exhaustive search”.  Even if you think you are “done” with an ancestor’s story, periodically look for more.  You may find something amazing!

Welcome back to the “Family” Annie Elizabeth and Captain Alexander Hains/Haines/Haynes!

52 Ancestors Week #26 – A Movie Star in the Family!!

No Story Too Small has issued a New Year’s Challenge: “Have one blog post each week devoted to a specific ancestor. It could be a story, a biography, a photograph, an outline of a research problem — anything that focuses on one ancestor.”


A silent movie film star – our cousin?!?!?

Mary Lloyd Warrener, who  likely became the silent film star Mae Gaston, was a first cousin to my g-grandmother Edith Bernice (Lansil) Haines. Their mothers Jane Catherine (Roberts) Lansil and Grace (Roberts) Warrener were sisters.

Mae Gaston photos


My acquaintance with Mae Gaston (also May/Mame/Mayme) came from an online blog post, “The Wandering Warrener’s” – http://www.valeofglamorgan.net/ where a “long lost cousin”, Lol, analyzed a branch of the family.

He says:

“Mary appears in none of the censuses, but she apparently married and became Mary Baker, before adopting the screen name of Mae Gaston and having a very successful film career in silent movies between 1914 and 1920. There is some conflict here with the fact that Mae Gaston is quoted and coming from Boston, Mass. – but this seems unlikely, unless Edmund and Grace originally landed in Boston and spent time there prior to moving to Illinois.”

He shared Edmund’s obituary, which appeared in The Chicago Tribune  on Saturday, July 12, 1930.  It reads as follows:

   WARRENER–Edmund F. Warrener, late of 3431 N. Troy St., dearly beloved husband of Jennie (nee Saunders), fond father of Jane Neddo, Nan Miller, Robert, Mary Baker, Warren and Edmund Jr., at rest in the funeral church, 3834-36 Irving Park Blvd., where services will be held  Tuesday at 1:30 p.m. Interment Elmwood Cemetery.


Our story:

My g-g-grandmother, Jane Catherine Roberts was born in 1862 in Lanfairfechan, Caernarvonshire, Wales to Robert Roberts and Jane Roberts (Roberts married Roberts, no relation), in a mountainside stone home named Cae haidd.  Jane had three sisters – Mary Ann (b. 1855), Margaret (b. 1867) and Grace (b. 1857) – her story here.

Sister, Grace married an Englishman, Edmund F. Warrener (a gamekeeper, born in Barlborough, Derbyshire in 1853, the 2nd son of John Walter Warrener and Jane Cordwell), and had 3 children  in Lanfairfechan – Jane (b. 1879), Ann/Nance (b. 1881) and Robert Cordwell (b. 1882).

Between Sept 1883 and Oct 1885  the Warrener family, Jane Catherine Roberts and Margaret Roberts sailed for Boston, Massachusetts. The Warrener/Roberts family initially settled in East Boston on Wilbur Court.  Edmund worked as a mason. There, on 11 Nov 1885, they had a daughter who was given a birth name of Mary Lloyd Warrener, after Grace’s paternal grandmother – http://tinyurl.com/ljpg5uk.

Mae Gaston birth

On Thursday, December 23, 1886 a 24 year old, pregnant, Jane Catherine Roberts married 47 year old Edwin Lansil (a lumber surveyor).  She settled with Edwin in Dorchester, Massachusetts and raised three daughters there – Frances “Fanny”, Edith Bernice and Doris. Soon afterwards, the Warreners packed up and relocated to Illinois (Margaret Roberts followed; she married John Williams, also a mason and raised 5 children – Jane Catherine, David, Robert, Grace and John).  In Illinois, Grace and Edmund had 3 more children – Warren (b. 1889; he went on to Vaudeville), Margaret (b. 1891) and Edmond (b. 1894).

Sadly, the day after Christmas, December 1897, 39 year old Grace died of complications while giving birth to their eighth known child [her obituary states that only six of her seven children survive - I believe that to be a typo, seven seemed to have survived; Margaret (Warrener) Brayton did predecease her father by about five weeks in 1930, which is why his obituary lists only six children - their deaths were seemingly unrelated, Margaret died from breast cancer and Edmund from a heart attack].



grace death

Two years later, in 1900, only Edmund jr. was at home. The remaining children were split up (some adopted, others taken in by their aunt Margaret). Edmund had remarried to Sarah Jane “Jennie” Saunders of Toronto, Canada.  I was able to track six of the seven living children through marriage and death – all except Mary Lloyd Warrener born in Boston – she was a mystery. Grace’s obituary claims only six of her eight children were living.  Did  Mary Lloyd die?  I hadn’t located a death record, but she is the only child of the seven unaccounted for in the 1900 census.

Then I read my cousin’s blog! Perhaps she became Mae Gaston?!?!?

I searched in vain for information about Mae Gaston’s childhood. I located many photos and newspaper articles chronicling her film life from 1914-1920. First she was under contract with Reliance Majestic and Fine Arts Studios; then she signed a contract with David Horsley Studios in Los Angeles.  Studio directories claim she was born in Boston in 1894, educated there and Lakeview High School, Chicago [there was a Lakeview public school and a private boarding school that existed in Chicago during that time]. She was described as 5’5″, 125 pounds with light brown hair and dark blue eyes. For “recreation”, she rides, swims, plays golf and tennis.

So, the silent film star was in Boston and then Chicago, just like our Mary Warrener!

Mae Gaston stories2


Mae Gaston signing

Mae in marriedMae and Ford

She appears in over 40 titles, many as leading lady with Francis Ford.

Mae Gaston stories

On Sunday, 24 Oct 1920, the Boston Herald describes  a movie town known as “Filmland City” on the Fellsway in Medford, Massachusetts where eight episodes of the popular “Nick Carter” series have been recently filmed. Mae is the leading lady opposite star Tom Carrigan.

Mae in Medford2Mae in Medford3


Nothing after 1920 – she disappears – no marriage, no death or obituary, no more films. Maybe she was a cousin, but there was no evidence; I gave up.

A few years later I discovered a letter dated August 1977 written by my grandmother’s sister Natalie of her visit to Aunt Doris (Lansil) Jenkins, Jane Catherine Lansil’s youngest daughter, on Cape Cod, Massachusetts.   Natalie writes to her sister: “…We did learn that grandmother Jane Catherine had other sisters. One sister Grace had a daughter who became May Gaston, a movie star (never heard of her).  Doris showed us a picture of her autographed to “My dear cousin Frances Lansil”….”

In another letter addressed to Natalie, dated September 1977,  Jane Catherine (Williams) Peterson says:

….My mother’s name was Margaret she had two sisters Jane Lansil and Grace Warrener – her husband was Edmund Warrener who was born in England. There were no boys in the family. My grandparents landed in Boston. My mother stayed there for awhile – she met Dad – he came to Chicago to seek work – he was a stone mason and she came later because Aunt Grace and hubby came here sometime before. Aunt Grace’s daughters were such beautiful girls. Mayme was in the movies years ago and Warren (my cousin) was an actor and was the original sissy in “School Days”….”

So three cousins, who knew nothing of one another, all claim a “film star cousin”, Mae Gaston through Grace Roberts Warrener! My interest piqued.

In the few years that had past, both FamilySearch.org and Ancestry.com have added millions of records to their databases and perhaps my genealogy skills have improved a bit :-)  I had never tried searching for “Mae Baker” – silly me!

death index

On Ancestry.com, a Mae L Baker in the California death index – Mother’s maiden name “Roberts”! Birth date of 11 Nov 1885, an exact match to Mary Lloyd Warrener born in Boston!

I sent for her SS-5.   Here she lies about her birth year saying she was born in 1904 vs. 1895.  But it IS our Grace.  Once she reached retirement age she must have submitted a correction to collect benefits, which might explain why the SS index has a correct date. The SS-5 is undated (or I can’t read the date), but probably 1949 since she says she was 44 on her last birthday). She was living at 1341 West 164th Gardena, California (the house was built in 1923: http://www.trulia.com/homes/California/Gardena/sold/3845274-1341-W-164th-St-Gardena-CA-90247)

Mae SS-5

Then on FamilySearch.org a marriage license:  In 1928, she married a bond broker, 30 year old Harold Hoover Baker, son of Abraham Lincoln Baker and Ida Mae Hoover. Mae lied about her age – A 43 year old divorcee claiming to be 32 residing in Beverly Hills (home of the rich and famous?)!!! And it is her second marriage!?!?

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USGENWEB lists (http://files.usgwarchives.net/special/becker/becker1.txt): THE HAROLD HOOVER BAKER FAMILY – Harold Hoover Baker-5, b. Oct 19, 1898, m. Nov 24, 1928 to Mae L. Warner. [1939 Address]: 17104 So. Figuerroa St., R.R. #2, Box 240, Gardena, California.

There is a Mae and Harold Baker living alone in 1940, both age 40 (which is about right assuming Mae was continuing to lie about her age), Mae born in Massachusetts and Harold born in California.  They have been living on 17104 Figueroa in Compton, California, for at least 5 years, a home valued at $2,500 (one of the least expensive in the area). Harold is an Operator on a Poultry Ranch (perhaps a changed career related to the Great Depression of the 1930/40’s?).  In 1930, Harold’s parents Abraham and Ida Baker  were living nearby at 17318 Figueroa.  According to Wikipedia, Figueroa is one of the longer streets in Los Angeles, it runs in a north/south direction for more than 30 miles.

Mae & Harold 1940: http://tinyurl.com/mpeln3s

Abraham & Ida 1930: http://tinyurl.com/k8t22cv

Still no Mae in any other censuses or city directories. But now I knew that she had a first husband.

I wrote again to cousin Lol to share my findings.  He responded with an old email from another Warrener cousin (Grace’s daughter Jane Catherine Warrener’s granddaughter) which read:

….”One of Grandma Jane’s brothers, “Warry,” was in vaudeville and on the same bill as Eddie Cantor and Al Johlson.  He died in a vaudeville retirement home in Chicago.  In the 1920’s, her sister Mary (Mame) was in silent movies and used the stage name “Mae Gaston.” She had an illegitimate son her husband never knew about.  Her married name was Baker”…..

The plot thickens! An illegitimate son that her husband never knew about? Scandalous!

I located a marriage entry in the Cook County Indexes on Ancestry.com.  Was this our Mary Warrener? Was Fred Curtis Aldrich (son of Christopher C. Aldrich and Elizabeth Blencoe) her first husband? I couldn’t be sure.  I ordered a copy.  It will take weeks to arrive.  I am not good at waiting :-)

marriage index

I continued my search.

In the 1920 census, Cook County, there is a Fred C. Aldrich living with wife Estelle and children Edmund (16) and Ardelle (14) – http://tinyurl.com/m5xtwlr – Edmund?  Named after Mary Warrener/Mae Gaston’s father? Estelle was just 31 – had she given birth at 16 or was she a step-mother?

Another marriage index shows that Fred C. Aldrich and Estelle Hendricks were married 30 Dec 1913, long after the birth of Edmund and Ardelle!  http://tinyurl.com/lhz8a3r   So likely this was our Mary Warrener (I have not located birth records for the children).

To date I have found nothing more on Edmund Aldrich.

He is not mentioned in his father’s obituary : “Chicago Tribune June 20, 1946: Services for Fred C. Aldrich, 64, teacher and shop superintendent at Schurz High school for 35 years, will be held at 3 p.m. today from the chapel, at 3918 Irving Park rd. Burial will be in Acacia Park. Mr. Aldrich died Tuesday at his home, 4031 Waveland av. He also was in charge of veterans’ counseling at Schurz, and coached its first football team many years ago. He is survived by his widow, Estelle; a daughter, Mrs. Ardella Thibaut; his mother, a sister and a brother.

I did find daughter Ardelle.  She held an MBA from DePauw University, became an elementary school teacher, married Richard Carlisle Thibault and moved to 5931 Morningside, Dallas, TX where she passed away from breast cancer on 31 August 1956 at the age of 50.  Her obituary (Dallas Morning News, 1 Sept 1956, section 3, page 15) does not mention any children (or her brother Edmund) and names her mother as Mrs. Fred C. Aldrich of Gobles, MI.  


No mention of Mary Warrener or Mae Gaston (who was still living) in the obituary.  But, she was listed as “mother” on Ardelle’s death certificate found on FamilySearch.org.  Since both children were born after Mae and Fred married and since Fred raised the children and is named as Ardelle’s father on her death certificate, it is likely that the children were legitimate.


So sad…  What happened to 13 year old Mary Warrener when her mother Grace died? How was her screen name chosen? There must be some document out there with Mae Gaston’s birthdate (perhaps she lied about the year, but wouldn’t she be truthful about the day/month – would it match our Mary Warrener?)! Did Mary/Mae abandon her two children for fame and fortune as a silent film star and then deny their existence to marry a much younger, wealthy bond broker?  It certainly seems so.  Did she ever regret her decision or see the children again? Did she have more children with Baker? Why did she leave the movie world? So many questions that may never be answered.

Mae’s obituary found in a Sonoma paper mentions nothing of a former career or screen name of Gaston.

Mae BakerHarry Baker

Someday I hope to find her probate in Sonoma and perhaps track down Edmund Aldrich and his descendants…..I would love to locate Mae in the 1900 -1930 censuses – I have never had an ancestor with the ability to avoid censuses takers for 30 years! She has to be there someplace!  We do know she was filming in Medford, MA in the fall of 1920….but she wasn’t found in any census in the US other than 1940.

52 Ancestors Week #25 – Probate of David Roberts of Llwynysgolog, Llanfairfechan, Wales

No Story Too Small has issued a New Year’s Challenge: “Have one blog post each week devoted to a specific ancestor. It could be a story, a biography, a photograph, an outline of a research problem — anything that focuses on one ancestor.”


Last week I wrote of my ancestor Jane Catherine Roberts, of Llanfairfechan, Wales (http://passagetothepast.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/52-ancestors-week-24-jane-catherine-roberts-of-llanfairfechan/) and mentioned her maternal grandfather, David Roberts born in Gyffyn, Wales (“GYFFIN, a parish in the hundred of Isaf, county Carnarvon, 2 miles from Conway. The parish, which is of considerable extent, containing five townships, is situated near the river Conway”, From The National Gazetteer of Great Britain and Ireland, 1868).


His baptism has not been located; he married Anne Roberts on 18 April 1821 in Llanfairfechan.


He died on Whitsun Monday 1834, a legal holiday in Wales (the day after Whitsunday, the Christian festival of Pentacost, the seventh Sunday after Easter, which commemorates the descent of the Holy Spirit upon Christ’s disciples).

David was buried on 22 May 1834 at about the age of 47.

Very little is known of his life.  He was a farmer and resided in a home called Llwynysgolog, a farm of about 80 acres.  He had a will dated 22 April 1834 (about a month prior to his death) which names his four children and assigns their guardians; one being his brother, William Roberts of a home called Llwydfaen in Llanbedr.  The full document can be seen here: probate David Roberts 1835


death d roberts

The inventory list gives us a small glimpse of his life and an idea of what type of farm he may have run.  Value of his assets were  £386 (or about $17,765 in 2014 buying power).

A True and Perfect Inventory of the Personal Estate Viz the Goods Chattels Household Furniture be of David Roberts of Llwynysgolog in the Parish of Llanfair fechan in the County of Caernarvon Farmer lately Deceased.

Viz 6 Milk Cows    31.0.0 31.0.0
1 Bull 4.0.0
2 Oxen 3 years old at 5 a head 10.0.0
7 Runts 2 years old at 4 a head 20.0.0
5 Yearlings at 2 10 a head 12.10.0
4 Calves at 15/ ahead 3.0.0
250 Small sheep at 10/ ahead 125.0.0
2 Team Horses 13.10.0
6 Mountain Ponies 25.0.0
7 Store Pigs at 25/6 8.17.0
1 Cow and Litter 3.6.0
Old Carts, Ploughs, Harrows, Gears and all implements of Husbandry 20.5.0
Wheat in Granary and unthreshed 26.0.0
Barley in Granary and unthreshed 38.0.0
Oats in Granary 4.11.0
Winnow Machine 4.0.0
Household Furniture including his clothes 30.0.0

NB This Inventory Value by David Evans Llwynysgolog [his widow's second husband, who she married 9 May 1835] and Thomas Griffin Ty’n Llwyfan on this 11 day of June 1834



(1) Runts – small ox or cow, especially one of various Scottish Highland or Welsh breeds.
(2) Yearlings – an animal (usually a horse) that is between one and two years old.
(3) Store Pig – a small pig that has not yet been weened, to be fattened up for market.
(4) Harrow – an agricultural machine used for deeper tillage. Harrowing is often carried out on fields to follow the rough finish left by ploughing operations to break up clods (lumps of soil) and to provide a finer finish.
(5) Unthreshed – not yet threshed.
(6) Threshed – to separate the grain or seed by some mechanical means as by beating with a flail or the action of a machine.
(7) Husbandry – the care, cultivation, and breeding of crops and animals.
(8) Winnow Machine – an agricultural method developed by ancient cultures for separating grain from chaff (the dry, scaly protective casings of the seeds). It is also used to remove weevils or other pests from stored grain.

52 Ancestors, Week #24, Jane Catherine Roberts of Llanfairfechan

No Story Too Small has issued a New Year’s Challenge: “Have one blog post each week devoted to a specific ancestor. It could be a story, a biography, a photograph, an outline of a research problem — anything that focuses on one ancestor.”


Jane Catherine Roberts is my 2nd g-grandmother.  My paternal grandmother, Nana Hall’s, maternal grandmother.

Photographer Hastings, of the Tremont Street Studio, was succeeded in 1896. The photo was likely taken between Jane’s Boston arrival (between Sept 1883 and Oct 1885) and 1895. Perhaps in 1886 when she married.


house Jane’s story begins in the village of Llanfairfechan, Caernarvonshire, Wales…..  474c3cc4-227e-4b30-91bc-26a73dc95c30

John Bartholomew, Gazetteer of the British Isles (1887) describes Llanfairfechan (Click to hear pronunciation) as a “small town and par[ish] with r[ailwa]y sta., Carnarvonshire, 7¾ miles SW. of Conway, 4255 ac. land and 2266 water, is a pleasant watering-place at the foot of Penmaenmawr Mountain, occupies a wooded and well-sheltered situation, and commands a charming seaward view”.

Rolling hills and mountains are covered in summer with glorious purple heather and the yellow flowers of the gorse bushes.  The Penmaenmawr granite quarry (once a major employer) is towards the east; the Garreg Farwt (Big Rock) stands 1150 feet high, and looks over the village. Although a beautiful place, the roads leading to Llanfair back in the day were riddled with thieves and dangerous for travelers. The winters are long and harsh; other seasons bring frequent rain.  Fall was spent collecting wood and peat for the fire.  There was beer making and Sunday cock fights in the sandpits. Most families owned a few farm animals.

map2   Untitled Jane’s Paternal Grandparents

On 11 Feb 1826 Jane’s paternal grandparents, William Roberts, of a Llanfairfechan home called Caehaidd (meaning barley field or field of barley), and Mary Lloyd  married.


Their son (Jane Catherine’s father) Robert Robert’s was baptized 30 August 1929; daughter Grace was baptized 19 May 1833.

dad Roberts Roberts birth

Grace Roberts birth

In 1841 Jane’s eleven year old father, Robert, was enumerated at Caehaidd with his father (a farmer), mother and eight year old sister Grace.

. 1841 census


On the Llanfairfechan Tithe Apportionment of 1847 a property named Caehaidd was a smallholding of about 17 Acres of arable land (land plowed or tilled regularly, generally under a system of crop rotation) owned by Henry Ellis and occupied by William Roberts and payable to the rector was £4.16 shillings (I think this was per annum) the rector in those days was also a rate and rent collector. By 1851 a 22 year old Robert was still residing  in Caehaidd with his parents, sister Grace’s whereabouts are unknown.


Rough mountain road up to Cahaidd in ditch on the right (facing) is a small stream where the family carried water from (photo 2013).


Cahaidd ruins with the mountain Garrag Fawr (Large Rock ) behind it (photo 2013).   8a8de035-abd7-4a60-8af3-37e51fa0e82d

A close up of Cahaidd ruins (photo 2013).

William, Mary and son Robert are buried in the church yard cemetery of Santes Mair (Saint Mary) Parish Church (closed now and is privately owned).


In memory of Mary wife of William Roberts Cae Haidd who died January 15th 1854 aged 62. Also the above W. Roberts died January 7th 1855 aged 58. Also their son Robert Roberts who died February 4th 1888 aged 58. 926dca0d-f112-4ae2-a89e-5daa3f316121


Mary Roberts death2


William Roberts death2

Jane’s Maternal Grandparents

On 18 April 1821 Jane’s maternal grandparents, David Roberts (born Gyffyn, North Wales) and Anne Roberts married. They resided in a home called Llwynysgolog in Llanfairfechan. e4fe80cc-5438-45e4-ae03-366620ce0c95

Photos of Llwynysgolog 2013 (area where the old stable stood) fdc1a967-d2a2-4211-9779-ff80866e6091 1b34582d-c575-4614-8779-8ec309e11cd7 fa1c72c7-7cc7-407b-8a2d-862b9db390ba

They had four known children: Mary, Anne, Jane  [Jane's mother] & William.

Jane’s mom Jane’s baptism 17 June 1832.

mom Jane Roberts birth

David, a farmer, died at age 47 and was buried on 22 May 1834.  He named all four of his young children in his will [subject of a future post].



death d roberts

His widow Anne married second David Evans on 9 May 1835. They had at least two children: Martha b. 1836 and Catherine b. 1841.


The family was enumerated in 1841 and 1851 at Llwynysgolog. Jane’s mother Jane was only included with the family in 1851 (age 18), her whereabouts in 1841 are unknown. Jane’s mother Jane lost her two sisters in 1843.  Seventeen year old Anne was buried in March and nineteen year old Mary in April.

In 1851 there were 809 people living in 182 dwellings in Llaifairfechan (up from 470 residents in 1801).


Jane’s grandmother, Anne, died 4 Jan 1861. Anne death

Jane’s step-grandfather, James Evans moved in with her family at Caehaidd, where he died, at age 75, in May 1867 when Jane was about age 5.

David Evans death2

Jane’s Parents

Llanfairfechan in the mid 1850s was small, poor and insignificant. The early nineteenth century tourist guide books described the mountains of Penmaenmawr and Aber with its water falls and its historical association with the medieval welsh princes at length. People living in Llanfairfechan never dreamt that soon great changes would be taking place in their parish.

Llanfairfechan was to be almost completely transformed.  Between 1851 and 1861, the population in Llanfairfechan grew by almost 400 to 1,199 villagers. The building of the railway in 1845 made the town more accessible, although it didn’t stop at Llanfairfechan at first, but at neighboring Aber. In Aug 1856, one of the biggest Llanfairfechan landlords, the Bulkeleys, sold parts of the Baron Hill Estates, land they had held for over two and a half centuries.  This allowed a number of ordinary locals to buy their own property and build bigger and impressive granite homes and cottages, replacing the whitewashed cottages that had stood for many years.

In 1857, John Platt turned his attention to North Wales and decided upon making Llanfairfechan his country seat. John Platt, a wealthy man, purchased the partially built and derelict mansion of Bryn-y-Neuadd and the 150 acres of land belonging to it. Soon things began to hum. In 1860 Platt demanded the building of a railway station for Llanfairfechan on his land so that he could travel to London conveniently. He then built Station Road on his land, and Richard Luck built Village Road. Until then, the main thoroughfare was a lane between The Village Inn and The Castle public houses. New shops were constructed and the economy prospered, with the tiny village becoming a popular tourist resort.

During this period of growth, Robert Roberts, son of William Roberts of Caehaidd and Mary Lloyd (deceased)  and Jane Roberts, daughter of David Roberts (deceased) and Anne Roberts of Llwynysgolog married on Saturday, 3 June 1854. Robert was a Quarryman. The quarry was run by “The Penmaenmawr & Welsh Granite Co.” The granite was lowered from the quarry by self-acting inclines to the 3 ft (914 mm) gauge tramway which ran to jetties, from where the setts were loaded into ships. The standard gauge Chester to Holyhead railway reached Penmaenmawr in 1848, after which the majority of the quarry output was sent by rail. marriage par The couple lived at Caehaidd and had four known children. Robert became a farmer of 20-30 acres (which he rented). My ancestor, Jane Catherine was the third known child.  Siblings included Maryanne, Grace and Margaret “Maggie”. Jane’s baptism record has not been located but the records of her siblings along with census records places her birth about 1862/3.

births census The newspapers give us a small glimpse of their lives:

In 1865, one of Roberts’ employees was stabbed.


In 1867, a “wild woman” was captured near the family home. caihadd wild woman

In 1868, Robert Roberts won 1st place at the Llanfairfechan horticultural show for his “dish of honey in a comb not less than 6 pounds”.


In 1869, his honey took 2nd place.

show 1869

Llanfairfechan 1871


By 1881, Jane’s sister Grace had married a gamekeeper from England named Edmund Warrener and had a daughter Jane.


In 1881, there is a Jane C. Roberts working as a servant in Lancashire, England on 1 Stockton Range for the family of  George F. Freeman (a Metal Merchant employing 17 men 2 boys).  She was born in Llanfairfechan and is of the right age, it is possible that this is our Jane, as she is not found in Wales [note that Jane Roberts is a common name]. possible Jane

In August 1886, Caehaidd was up for auction. The land was described as 18 acres of fertile arable [fit for cultivation] and grazing land.

caihadd sale

On 8 Feb 1888, Jane’s father Robert, age 58, died. His obituary lists him as a farmer and for many years the director of the Llanfairfechan waterworks. His funeral “was the largest ever seen” in the parish; he was buried with his parents in the church yard cemetery of Santes Mair (Saint Mary) Parish Church [photo above]. robert death   Robert Roberts death

Click to read more of the Llanfairfechan waterworks (column 1 & 2). Sometime between Sept 1883 and Oct 1885 Jane’s sister Grace and her husband Edmund with their children moved to Boston, Massachusetts [based on their children's birth dates/places, Grace's obituary and their son Robert's Naturalization].  Edmund became a Mason and in 1886 they resided at 6 Wilbur Ct., East Boston, Massachusetts [Jane's future husband Edwin Lansil, left East Boston for Dorchester in 1882; it is unknown how they met]. Our Jane Catherine and her sister Margaret joined them.  Ship records have not been located, it is unknown if they traveled together. One of Edmund/Grace’s sons naturalized but does not know his date of arrival or the vessel name.

A pregnant Jane married Edwin Lansil, 25 years her senior,  in 1886, which kept her in Boston.


Her two sisters moved to the Chicago area before 1889.  There, Margaret married John Williams.  Grace died during childbirth in 1897 and Margaret helped to raise some of her children. More on what is known of Grace’s family: http://passagetothepast.wordpress.com/2013/08/22/a-movie-star-in-the-family/). Grace Warrener death

Jane’s single sister, Mary Ann, remained in Llainfairfechan with her mother Jane.  In 1891, the Llanfairfechan census listed Cahaidd as “vacant”.  Jane and Mary Ann had moved to the Village where Jane was a lodging house keeper at Min y Don and Mary Ann a dressmaker.

A blog post detailing Edwin’s life gives additional family details: Click for Edwin Lansil. In summary, Jane went on to have five children – Frances Mae “Fanny”, b. 1887; Edith Bernice, b. 1888; Florence Paine, b. 1890; Edwin Roberts, b. 1894 and Doris, b. 1899.  Only Fanny, Edith and Doris lived to adulthood.









Jane’s husband, Edwin, died 11 Jul 1904 (after being admitted to the Boston Insane Hospital on 20 Nov 1903,  through probate court, according to the asylum intake records; these court records have not been located) leaving her with children aged 17, 16 and 5.

Soon after her  placement of Edwin in the insane asylum, advertisements appeared – “rooms for rent”, perhaps run by Jane Catherine who was likely in need of some form of income. The home was described as “a three-apartment frame house, stable and 4,800 square feet of land”  the rental as “4 large, nicely furnished rooms, with or without stable, high land, good location, large yard, with fruit trees, near electric and steam cars, rent reasonable”



lansil house

In May 1905, a widowed Jane Catherine (Roberts) Lansil returned to Wales to accompany her mother, now with defective vision and a corneal ulcer, on the SS Saxonia sailing from Liverpool and arriving in Boston 9 May (her mother claimed to have been in Boston previously in 1894 and 1897). Jane (Roberts) Roberts is listed as a widow and mother of two children – her daughter, Mary Ann’s, death record has not been located, but she is presumed deceased (indexes do list a Mary Ann Roberts of the correct age, who died in Conway, 7¾ miles from Llanfairfechan, in April -June 1905).

. ship


Mary Ann death

On 23 March 1907, a 44 year old Jane Catherine (Roberts) Lansil, was committed to the Boston Insane Hospital, through probate court (according to the asylum intake records; these court records have not been located), where she presumably resided until her death 30 May 1932. The 1932 Annual Report of the hospital claims only nine patients (5%) who had been in residence for greater than 10 years.

1907 Map (Austin Farm housed the women), Productive work, exercise, and time spent out-of-doors were important parts of the “moral treatment” of mental illness.


She was enumerated there in 1910, 1920 and 1930. She was however listed in several city directories, so perhaps she was an out-patient of the institution in earlier years (the asylum intake records do not record any evidence of this in the comment field).


Interior of a ward in the Department for Women at the Boston Insane Hospital. Some nurses and patients are visible. Photograph taken in 1900, seven years prior to Jane’s admittance.


By 1907, daughters Edith and Fanny had married.  Fanny took in, and raised, her youngest sister, Doris.

Jane’s son in law, Edith husband, William John Haines, sold the homestead on 101 Maxwell Street in 1907, soon after the birth of his first child, Jane’s granddaughter, Edith Anna Haines. There is no evidence of the home being transferred or sold to him and the 1907 sewer assessment was in Edwin’s name.

sewer assessment

In 1913/14 Jane Lansil is listed as a boarder at 63 Hiawatha Road, Mattapan (Boston) – the same address as her son in law Edward J. Thompson.  In 1915-7 she is listed at 79 Rosewood, Mattapan – the same address as her brother in law Walter Lansil. Her name is not listed after 1917 in the Boston area.

Jane (Roberts) Roberts was sent to Chicago to live with her daughter Margaret about 1907.  Margaret’s daughter writes on 28 Aug 1977 to my Aunt Natalie:

” My grandmother made her home with your [great] grandma Jane Lansil when she came from Wales but after awhile after Jane L passed away (I believe it was Frances) wrote and said they could no longer care for a blind old lady and they were thinking of putting her in the Poor house [editor's note: Jane Lansil was in an insane asylum, not deceased]. I believe they meant an institution for the elderly but run by the city or state – so my father said “that will never be – we are poor but we will share what we have” so he went to Mass. And brought Grandmother back. I loved her very much and was sympathetic toward her. She passed away in her sleep at Rome and we buried her in our cemetery plot in Hillside, Ill. A suburb of Chicago” [she died 12 Mar 1912].

Little more is known of Jane Catherine (Roberts) Lansil’s final 25 years. Sadly in Massachusetts, insane asylum records are forever sealed.  We may never know how Jane spent her last 25 years [in the event they are opened to future generations, her last form number is 5116 and registered number 8471 – FHL film 2108120 Items 5 – 6 include Register 1, 1855-1907 Register 2, 1907 [Boston, Massachusetts].


In 1910, she was with 777 others:

boston state hospital


Superintendents and staff were proud of the Dorchester facilities and generally welcomed the public. Often, model patients would be allowed to congregate around visiting areas so that visitors would get a positive impression of the facility. The best wards were usually the easiest to get to, for the same reason. What were often called “back wards” were for the more difficult patients, and casual visitors seldom went there. These policies usually worked, and most visitors were favorably impressed.

A sampling of information in the Boston Insane Hospital’s annual reports (copies of which can be found on http://babel.hathitrust.org/):


insane asylum










Aunt Natalie does not recall ever meeting her grandmother Jane Catherine (Roberts) Lansil, but does recall that her mother Edith Bernice missed  her sister Doris Haines high school graduation in early June 1932 to attend her grandmother’s funeral.

Her death certificate gives a last residence of the long ago sold 101 Maxwell Street home, indicating that she was perhaps admitted around the time of it’s 1907 sale.  She left no known assets.  There was no will or probate filed. Cause of death was lobar pneumonia, her underlying diagnosis was dementia praecox (a “premature dementia” or “precocious madness”) refers to a chronic, deteriorating psychotic disorder characterized by rapid cognitive disintegration, usually beginning in the late teens or early adulthood, a specific disease concept that implied incurable, inexplicable madness. A condition that would eventually be reframed into a substantially different disease concepts and relabeled as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or other types of mood disorders including clinical depression [Wikipedia].



68 year old Jane Catherine Lansil was buried at Cedar Grove, Dorchester, Maple Lot, Section 21, Lot 1483, Row H.  The lot was purchased 21 Feb 1891, there is only one marker, engraved with “Florence P. Lansil, age 9 months”, baby Florence was buried 22 Feb 1891  – the family may not have been able to afford engraving. According to cemetery records, a 10 day old Edwin R Lansil and Jane’s husband Edwin Lansil are also buried in the lot.


——————————————————————————————————————————————————- Sources: Llanfairfechan Baptisms, Marriages, Deaths – Findmypast.uk

Llanfairfechan Census data – Ancestry.com

Photos of Caehadd, Llwynysgolog and graveyard and tithe schedule- Courtesy Margaret Roberts, Llanfairfechen 2013  

Welsh Newspapers Online Beta – http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=4723

Additional reading – Through Thick and Thin, Family Tales and Village Life, Llanfairfechan & Days Gone By, People Places and Pictures of Llanfairfechan – both by Margaret Roberts.


Further research: 

Elizabeth Bouvier
Head of Archives
MA Supreme Judicial Court
3 Pemberton Sq., 16th Fl.
Boston, MA 02108-1701

3 July 2014: There are Suffolk County Probate Commitment records ; however, the index to the records was not located  as of 1986 when the records were moved from the Court  to an offsite storage center.  The records are organized by case number and year.    It may be awhile before you hear back from my office as to whether we can locate any records for your relatives.

52 Ancestors – Week #23, Edwin Lansil the not so famous brother….

No Story Too Small has issued a New Year’s Challenge: “Have one blog post each week devoted to a specific ancestor. It could be a story, a biography, a photograph, an outline of a research problem — anything that focuses on one ancestor.”


Everyone in the family knows of “our” famous artist Walter Franklin Lansil, “Uncle Waddie”, and most are aware of his accomplished brother Wilbur Henry Lansil, “Bibber”.  Many of us have one or more of their paintings.  We speak of “our” bachelor Lansils at cocktail parties, when other family historians bring up the DAR/SAR, the Mayflower Society or their Indian Princess…. “We have a famous Venetian artist!,  His art sells like hotcakes!… Oh….and he does descend from Mayflower passenger Stephen Hopkins and William Grout who fought in the Revolutionary War!”

2014 magazine article describing a Lansil that sold at auction

But what about their brother Edwin?, our direct descendant? Several of his descendants were named for him….but to be honest, I don’t think many of us know much about him (at least I didn’t). Edwin was my second g-grandfather (my paternal grandmother’s, maternal grandfather).


Edwin resided with his parents and four brothers Enoch, Walter, Asa & Wilbur (and most years his sister Frances) for his entire lifetime.  For that reason I include tidbits of all of these family members in his biography.

b78d6966-0ac5-4c1b-b14a-fe25bce6d589 (1)

Edwin Lansil, middle name unknown (possibly Paine), was the second known child born to Asa Paine Lansil and Betsey Turner Grout on 5 June 1839 in Bangor, Maine. On 9 July 1843, when Edwin was four and his sister Frances Ellen two, they were baptized at the Hammond Street Church in Bangor.


Older brother Enoch Howard, born 1 Dec 1835/6 (recorded both years in Bangor records) and baptized 25 Aug 1844 at the same church, died in youth (according to Sunday School admittance records on 22 Feb 1843; unknown if he was baptized after death or if one of the dates is inaccurate).


Enoch’s baptism, Hammond Street Church Records


Enoch’s Sabbath School Records, Hammond Street Church Records

Baptism records were not found for Walter, Asa or Wilbur.  Hammond Street Congregational Church was established in 1833, during an economic boom caused by the lumbering and shipping industries. A congregation of 71 members agreed to establish a brick structure west of the Kenduskeag Stream. Because building costs were running high, the building design was scaled back. In 1853/4 money was raised to renovate the exterior, lengthen and heighten the walls, and add the single spire.


From 1843 to 1848, Edwin’s family was living on 101 Hammond, a brick tenement in the Bangor neighborhood of Barkerville.  Asa’s brother Charles (wife Louisa and baby) lived at the same address.

By age eight, Edwin was attending the Hammond Street Sabbath School.


In 1850, he was listed as Edward P. Lansil (father Asa P. on Main Street) indicating that perhaps Edwin’s middle name was Paine.  No other records exist that mention a middle initial or name.


In 1850, an eleven year old Edwin was living in Bangor with his parents and siblings Francis E. (“Fannie”), Walter Franklin (“Waddie”) and Asa Brainard. Edwin’s father was a Cooper, with real estate valued at $1,000. In 1851 the family moved to Main St.; Asa worked on 61 Broad St., perhaps with brothers James & Ephraim.




On 6 June 1858, the day after his 19th birthday, Edwin became the 630th member of the Hammond Street Church.



That same year, he seemed to assist as a Sabbath School teacher (as did his father), then he returned to bible class.


By 1859, a 20 year old Edwin had become a cooper and part of his dad’s business; Asa’s assets had risen to $3,500. Betsey gave birth to another son in 1855, Wilbur Henry (known as “Bibber”). Asa’s sister, Mary (Lansil) Dudley died in 1856; and one of her children, Sarah Elizabeth Dudley, joined the family. Listed in the census as a domestic servant, was Melissa Paul, age 16 (perhaps a boarder or relative as her family lived next door to Asa’s brother Thomas Lansil in 1850).


The family lived on the west side of the Kenduskeag Stream (Main and Hammond Streets).


city dir


In 1860 Edwin was Asa’s only employee and made about $30 monthly. The father and son team produced barrels, buckets, water casks and cisterns. Asa had $200 invested in the business, and annually produced products valued at $1,000. In 1857, they sold to the town a cistern for $25, and horse buckets for $9. In 1861, for $23, they sold a cistern for the city stable . They do not appear in the Maine IRS tax lists from1862-6 (only Asa’s brothers Charles V. & George made the list), indicating that perhaps neither Edwin or Asa profited much in these years.


In 1861, Edwin was part of the town’s (volunteer) fire unit, Eagle Company No.3 (no known photo of Hose 3 exists, below are other Bangor stations in that era).




It was the time of the Civil War, several of Edwin’s relatives fought.  An unknown author writes: “The period of our life in Bangor was marked by the Civil War which although its active scenes were far away, sent its vibrations of anxiety & grief or of joy and triumph to our homes and our assemblies. How did we rejoice when Donelson fell! and when Gettysburg gave the decisive blow to rebellion! How did we mourn when – almost in the moment of victory – our great & good President was assassinated!” 


By 1870, Edwin had most likely relocated to Boston. He was not found in the 1870 census but in 1871 he is listed in the Bangor City Directory as living in East Boston.


The rest of the family was still living on 101 Hammond Street, Bangor in 1870. Asa’s net worth had risen to $5,500. Walter (then a cistern maker – was Asa Paine’s only employee, in a business now netting $1,200 annually) and Asa Brainard (clerk in store) had joined the now paid members of the fire department.



During this period, the lumber business was booming in Bangor.


In 1863 Edwin’s sister Fannie married a wealthy lumberman, Carleton Sylvanus Bragg, Jr., (in 1870 the 31 year old’s net worth was $35,000. Bragg’s dad Carleton, Sr., who died in Boston in 1876, also a lumber dealer was worth $50,000 that same year).  In 1870/1 Edwin, his brother-in-law Bragg (who also moved to Boston with his young family) and Henry Jones started a lumber business under the name “Jones, Bragg & Lansil” in East Boston. They purchased property for $2,146.37; four parcels totaling 5,625 feet on Maverick and Lamson (borrowing at 7%).

Their older partner Henry Jones was born 1811 in Maine. The small piece of Border Street waterfront between the north boundary of the Boston East site and Central Square was originally the site of Jones Wharf, apparently built about 1850 by Henry Jones, a lumber merchant in business with E. A. Abbott. He is found living in East Boston from about 1850 until his death in 1879. In 1850 as a timber dealer, 1860 a wealthy lumber dealer (his assets valued at $31,600, image below) and in 1870 as a dealer in ship timber. He seemed quite involved in town affairs.

Carlton’s obituary in the Bangor Daily Whig, 5 November 1880, page-3 summarizes their move:


Index to the City Council Minutes

Massachusetts Land Deeds – 7 Dec 1871, book 1082, pg 206-8 land purchase “Jones, Bragg & Lansil”

land deed


land deed2d9472639-b050-4140-945f-2b7dfdc46947

The Lansil business was most likely established in East Boston to provide lumber to the booming ship building industry.

But, after the Civil War the ship building business collapsed.  Buyers favored steamers over wooden ships. World famous East Boston ship builder, Donald McKay (who lived on White Street near the Braggs) launched his last clipper in 1869 and closed his East Boston shipyards in 1875.

No records are found telling us what became of the Lansil/Bragg business and fortunes (the business is only listed in the 1871/2 directories), but it is evident that a lumber business may not have been successful in this era.

In the 1870’s, the wealthy Yankee families, original settlers, when East Boston was a prosperous trading center and alluring vacation  resort left their homes for more fashionable addresses. Their “posh” homes were sold to developers who subdivided. Three family homes were erected in former lumber yards and other empty lots.

Much of the East Boston skilled population moved off the island to the recently opened “streetcar suburbs”. They were replaced by “cheaper” immigrants, mostly Irish, who flooded the community. The Lansil’s remained in East Boston longer than most.

Meanwhile, in 1871, the city assessed a $700 tax on the building that Asa rented, deeming the land more valuable due to street widening.   Perhaps this was a contributing factor in his decision to relocate.


Asa P. soon put the family horse, sleigh & robes and house on the market in preparation of the family’s move to Boston.


Asa P., Betsey, Walter, Asa B. and Wilbur all joined Edwin, Carleton and Frances in East Boston. They initially boarded at 119 Webster, East Boston (Fannie Lansil Bragg is on 39 White, East Boston). Soon Asa P. and Edwin purchased a home together for $5,600 on Trenton, at the corner of Putnam (lot 169, sec 3).


Massachusetts Land Deeds – book 1137, pg 179-180, 9 Dec 1872


Edwin, Asa B. and the Braggs initially lived together. When the rest of the family arrived in 1872, the Braggs relocated to White St., but by 1876 they rejoined the family on Trenton. Edwin is listed in city directories without an occupation from 1872-76.



The move to Boston sent Walter on his way to fame! A small sampling of some of the newspaper accounts of his activities:


159 Trenton Street as it looks in 2013


A full listing of Asa’s clan, including daughter Fannie Bragg’s family in the 1880 census:


Edwin, a lumber surveyor, had been unemployed for 4 months in the preceding year. Sadly, later in 1880, Fannie’s husband Carleton passed away suddenly on 1 Nov 1880 after being sick for just two days. The cause was apoplexy (sudden loss of consciousness, sensation, and voluntary motion).


The following year, on 3 March 1881, Edwin’s mother, Betsey Turner (Grout) Lansil, died of dropsey caused by scirrhus of the liver.  At the time of her death she was still living at 159 Trenton Street and was 67 years and 9 months. They buried Betsey at Mount Hope Cemetery, State Street, Bangor, ME Lot 407CG.

No probate records were found for her in Suffolk County. She does not have a gravestone.


In 1882 the entire family was still living together but, had relocated to Dorchester (with widowed sister Fannie Bragg and her children), most likely due to changing demographics (incoming immigrants) in East Boston. Dorchester was still a primarily rural town and had a population of 12,000 when it was annexed to Boston in 1870. Railroad and streetcar lines brought rapid growth, increasing the population to 150,000 by 1920.

At the end of the 19th century, Dorchester was described as follows: Its close proximity to the ocean, with refreshing breezes throughout the summer months, superb views from its elevated points of Boston Bay, and harbor of unrivalled beauty, combining the freedom and delights of the country with the advantages and privileges of the city, pure invigorating air, good drainage, –all these features are steadily drawing the most desirable class of home builders. Most of its territory is occupied by handsome and attractive private residences, with extensive grounds, beautiful lawns, and shade trees around them.


The 1882 through 1886 city directories indicate that perhaps Asa P. owned the home on Milton Avenue.  No entry was found in Suffolk County land indexes to support this – all of his sons and presumably the Braggs continued to reside in the same household. Edwin seemed to be unemployed 1881-3 and then worked as a lumber surveyor 1884-6 :


Milton Ave corner Fuller 2013 – Very near to 101 Maxwell Street; the homestead purchased by brother Walter in 1886.


Walter’s popularity continued to grow. Coleman, Lewis & Co., a small wares company where Wilbur was a shipper for years, dissolved in late 1882. Wilbur decided on a career change and joined his brother as an artist. In August 1884, the brothers set off for Europe; family lore says Edwin funded their jaunts across the sea to study and paint.  Unlikely, given Edwin’s lack of employment – more likely funding was from Walter auctioning off his artwork to prominent citizens.

Construction Update



Partial letter written by Natalie (Haines) Thomson to her sister Marion:


In February 1886, Edwin and Asa P. (both unmarried) sell their interest in the Trenton/Putnam Street East Boston home to Walter for consideration of $1.  Walter is to assume payment of the mortgage to Betty McIntosh, $3,500 plus interest (Walter resold 4 years later to Albert E. Low a local Grocer who grew up in East Boston, a newlywed and fellow Mason,  for consideration of $1 and assumption of the mortgage – still $3,500, plus interest).


In March 1886, sister Fannie died of consumption (likely Tuberculosis). No probate record was found. It seems that a once wealthy Bragg family was without cash or assets. Fannie’s youngest child Florence May Bragg was 17 and now an orphan – the Lansil brothers continued to provide for her (in 1900 she is listed in the census living with the Lansil’s but without an occupation).

On September 11, 1886 Walter purchased the home at 101 Maxwell Street (lots 8 & 10, sect. 3 – 9,880 square feet of land or about 2 ¼ acres) for $3,700, taking out a mortgage from S. Pickney Holbrook of $2,800.


On Thursday, December 23, 1886 a 47 year old Edwin (a lumber surveyor) married a much younger (24 years old and pregnant) Jane Catherine Roberts, the first marriage for both (Edwin was the only son of Asa and Betsey who married).  They were married by Rev. Edward Newman Packard. Jane had been in the U.S. a little over a year – she arrived sometime in 1885. On their wedding day, the temperature was between 30 and 40 degrees and it may have been snowing lightly.

boston weather

Rev. Packard was installed April 8, 1870 as a minister at Second Church, Dorchester (corner of Washington and Centre streets).  The church was Congregational Trinitarian. The church, pictured in 2013, is now a Church of the Nazarene:


Soon the children begin to arrive!

  • Five months later in May 1887  – Frances May “Fannie” Lansil, known to the younger generation as“Aunt Fan” was born.

March 11-14, 1888, the “Great Blizzard of 1888″ blankets parts of New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, and Connecticut with up to 50 inches of snow!

  • On 26 Jun 1888 – Edith Bernice Lansil was born.


Five months later the Lansil’s had a house fire which caused about $500 in damage [about $12,200 in 2014 dollars].


  • On 26 May 1890 Florence Paine Lansil arrived.


In 1890, Edwin is a boarder on Maxwell Street and a lumber surveyor at 27 Doane – the address of Walstein R. Chester & Company . Doane Street was the “lumber street” of Boston housing about a dozen lumber wholesale companies who provided the majority of the city’s lumber from this row of old buildings.  Edwin was with them for about 11 years from 1888 to 1899.


On 5 June 1890, Edwin’s father Asa Paine Lansil passed away.  He died of “old age” (77y, 7m, 19 d), at the Maxwell St. residence. They buried him with his wife Betsey at Mount Hope Cemetery. No probate records were found in Suffolk County. He probably died without assets.


Sadly Edwin and Jane’s 8 month old infant, Florence passed away on 20 February 1891 of convulsions and coma related to, tuberic meningitis. She was buried at Cedar Grove Cemetery, Dorchester, Maple Lot, Section 21, Lot 1483.


While he never seemed to gain as much fame as Walter, articles about Wilbur began to appear in local papers. A small sampling below:


In 1892, Edwin  joined the “secret society” of Masons – in East Boston (unclear why since he was living in Dorchester).


Walter & Wilbur joined The Lodge of Eleusis – Freemasonry – It was designed to bring together young college trained men in fraternal compact who had a sincere desire to put behind them the horrors of war and the misgivings incident to human conflict, that they might commune again as brothers, citizens, and good neighbors in an era of peace.

Their records say, “Two other Brethren artists were Wor. Walter Lansill (master 1892, 1893) and Wilbur Lansill. Wilbur died in office as senior warden. Walter lived to a ripe old age and was the sodality insructor who saw to it that young officers became proficient in their work. He was in active service up to a few weeks before his decease. His paintings on modern city life won the acclaim of the critics and some of them sold for large amounts”


In February 1893, the family dog, a collie owned by Asa B., was killed by intentional poisoning.  The case does not appear to have been solved. Many more Dorchester dogs died over the next several months from poison.


In 1894, two sons were recorded as born to Edwin and Jane.  This is likely an error – the births were 4 months apart. In the 1900 census, Jane reports having given birth to only 5 (not 6) and that 3 survived.

Frederick W Lansil was supposedly born, 29 Mar 1894 however there is no one of this name buried in the family lot.


Edwin Roberts Lansil, died of marasmus (progressive emaciation and general wasting due to enfeebled constitution rather than any specific or ascertainable cause) gastroenteritis, on 8 Aug 1894, age 10 days. Edwin was buried at Cedar Grove cemetery with sister Florence. No birth record was found. Perhaps the birth record was listed as Frederick in error and given a date of 29 Mar 1894 vs. 29 May 1894.


In 1896, Edwin purchased the Maxwell Street home from Walter at the price of $1.  He assumed a first mortgage of $2,800 and a second of $400.





Wilbur “Bibber” (who “kept a herd of cattle” to use as art subjects in the stable on Maxwell St.) died on 26 June 1897 of pulmonary phthisis (a progressive wasting away of the body, typically tuberculosis). He was buried in Mount Hope Cemetery, Bangor with his parents.  He left a will written 30 July 1896.


The Dressers are included in folks who attend the funeral – Mrs. Dresser sent flowers.


Wilbur left the remainder of his estate to his brother Walter.  In the event that Walter was not living, everything was to go to his 3 nieces: Florence May Bragg, Frances May Lansil and Edith Bernice Lansil (niece Doris Lansil was born after his death).  Walter was named as executor, Henry Howard Dresser was the named alternate if Walter does not survive him. There was no mention of Edwin, Asa B. or his Bragg nephews Edwin & Fredrick, all of whom were living.

The inventory list submitted after his death includes sketches, paintings, a camera, art supplies and a cow’s head!




In May 1899, Edwin and Walter petitioned the probate court for guardianship of their brother Asa.  The petition says that by excessive drinking and idleness he spends, wastes and lessens his estate as to expose himself to want or suffering thereby exposing the city of Boston to paying his support.

Asa became Edwin’s “Ward” until 17 Nov 1902 when Edwin is discharged (or resigned, the paperwork isn’t clear). He charged Asa $25/month board from 1899-1902. Rental properties in the area (according to advertisements in the Boston Globe) in 1899-1902 were in the $6-$25 range. The higher amounts for a full 8-10 room house! It seems that Asa was over paying, but we don’t know the circumstances (i.e. was board inclusive of food?). Asa took very little in the form of cash (a few dollars here and there) but the city directories indicate that he was still working as a clerk during this period. Edward paid fees from the estate for Asa’s newspapers and laundry (glad to see Jane Catherine wasn’t required to do it for him!). It 1899 Edwin reimbursed himself $38.46 in legal fees 1899 and in 1902 took $42.65 for services as guardian.


On 29 Dec 1899, baby Doris Lansil arrived.



In 1900, Edwin, Jane, their three surviving children (Francis 13, Edith 11, & Doris 5 months), niece Florence Bragg and brothers Asa (no occupation listed) & Walter (artist) are living on 101 Maxwell Street, Dorchester.  A 60 year old Edwin is listed as a lumber surveyor who has not worked in the past 12 months.  He owns the home which is still mortgaged.


By late 1900 Edwin had a job at A.M Stenson & Co., 44 Kilby, as a lumber surveyor.


In 1902, Walter moved to Hotel Pelham (an apartment house) and within the year, Asa B. joined him.


Their move may have been related to Edwin’s diagnosis as “insane” in 1902 (his 1904 death certificate indicates that he was insane for 2 years preceding death). On 17 Nov 1902, Edwin resigned as Asa B.’s guardian. No reason was given.


A year later, Edwin was admitted to the Boston Insane Hospital on 20 Nov 1903. Men were housed on Pierce Farm.


Interior of the infirmary ward in the Department for Men at the Boston Insane Hospital. Patients are seated around the room. Photograph taken a few years prior to Edwin’s arrival in 1900




Soon after Asa’s death and placement of Edwin in the insane asylum, advertisements appeared – “rooms for rent”, perhaps run by Jane Catherine who was then alone in the home with her children and likely needed some form of income.


On 11 July 1904, 65 year old Edwin died.  The actual cause of death was erysipelas (a bacterial skin infection).He was buried at Cedar Grove, Dorchester, Maple Lot, Section 21, Lot 1483, Row H. No probate records exist in Suffolk County, indicating that he also died without assets.


The lot was purchased 21 Feb 1891, there is only one marker, engraved with “Florence P. Lansil, age 9 months”, she was buried 22 Feb  – this coupled with lack of probate indicates Edwin may not have had much – the family may not have been able to afford a grave marker. According to cemetery records, a 10 day old Edwin R Lansil and 68 year old Jane Catherine Lansil are also buried in the lot.


Sadly, we know nothing of Edwin’s personality, we have tiny glimpses of what his life may have been like. Was he a chamer? How did he come to marry a woman young enough to be his child? I would guess things weren’t easy – close family members were alcoholics, we don’t know if Edwin drank, how he treated his wife and children and dealt with the death of his older brother Enoch, two babies and poisoning of the dog. How did the loss of a business and frequent unemployment affected him? The end of his life came while institutionalized. For what reason? We may never know his hardships and what impact he had on our generation.


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